perm filename COMMON.MSG[COM,LSP]7 blob sn#655240 filedate 1982-04-20 generic text, type C, neo UTF8
COMMENT ⊗   VALID 00222 PAGES
C REC  PAGE   DESCRIPTION
C00001 00001
C00031 00002	∂30-Dec-81  1117	Guy.Steele at CMU-10A 	Text-file versions of DECISIONS and REVISIONS documents  
C00033 00003	∂23-Dec-81  2255	Kim.fateman at Berkeley 	elementary functions
C00036 00004	∂01-Jan-82  1600	Guy.Steele at CMU-10A 	Tasks: A Reminder and Plea 
C00040 00005	∂08-Dec-81  0650	Griss at UTAH-20 (Martin.Griss) 	PSL progress report   
C00049 00006	∂15-Dec-81  0829	Guy.Steele at CMU-10A 	Arrgghhh blag    
C00051 00007	∂18-Dec-81  0918	HEDRICK at RUTGERS (Mngr DEC-20's/Dir LCSR Comp Facility) 	information about Common Lisp implementation  
C00055 00008	∂21-Dec-81  0702	HEDRICK at RUTGERS (Mngr DEC-20's/Dir LCSR Comp Facility) 	Re: Extended-addressing Common Lisp 
C00057 00009	∂21-Dec-81  1101	HEDRICK at RUTGERS (Mngr DEC-20's/Dir LCSR Comp Facility) 	Re: Common Lisp      
C00058 00010	∂21-Dec-81  1512	HEDRICK at RUTGERS (Mngr DEC-20's/Dir LCSR Comp Facility) 	Common Lisp
C00061 00011	∂22-Dec-81  0811	Kim.fateman at Berkeley 	various: arithmetic  commonlisp broadcasts  
C00064 00012	∂22-Dec-81  0847	Griss at UTAH-20 (Martin.Griss) 	[Griss (Martin.Griss): Re: Common Lisp]   
C00068 00013	∂23-Dec-81 1306	Guy.Steele at CMU-10A 	Re: various: arithmetic commonlisp broadcasts 
C00076 00014	∂18-Dec-81  1533	Jon L. White <JONL at MIT-XX> 	Extended-addressing Common Lisp   
C00077 00015	∂21-Dec-81  0717	HEDRICK at RUTGERS (Mngr DEC-20's/Dir LCSR Comp Facility) 	Re: Common Lisp      
C00079 00016	∂22-Dec-81  0827	Griss at UTAH-20 (Martin.Griss) 	Re: various: arithmetic  commonlisp broadcasts
C00081 00017	∂04-Jan-82  1754	Kim.fateman at Berkeley 	numbers in common lisp   
C00090 00018	∂15-Jan-82  0850	Scott.Fahlman at CMU-10A 	Multiple Values    
C00096 00019	∂15-Jan-82  0913	George J. Carrette <GJC at MIT-MC> 	multiple values.   
C00098 00020	∂15-Jan-82  2352	David A. Moon <Moon at MIT-MC> 	Multiple Values   
C00100 00021	∂16-Jan-82  0631	Scott.Fahlman at CMU-10A 	Re: Multiple Values
C00102 00022	∂16-Jan-82  0737	Daniel L. Weinreb <DLW at MIT-AI> 	Multiple Values
C00105 00023	∂16-Jan-82  1415	Richard M. Stallman <RMS at MIT-AI> 	Multiple Values   
C00108 00024	∂16-Jan-82  2033	Scott.Fahlman at CMU-10A 	Keyword sequence fns    
C00109 00025	∂17-Jan-82  1756	Guy.Steele at CMU-10A 	Sequence functions    
C00112 00026	∂17-Jan-82  2207	Earl A. Killian <EAK at MIT-MC> 	Sequence functions    
C00114 00027	∂18-Jan-82  0235	Richard M. Stallman <RMS at MIT-AI> 	subseq and consing
C00116 00028	∂18-Jan-82  0822	Don Morrison <Morrison at UTAH-20> 	Re: subseq and consing  
C00117 00029	∂02-Jan-82  0908	Griss at UTAH-20 (Martin.Griss) 	Com L  
C00120 00030	∂14-Jan-82  0732	Griss at UTAH-20 (Martin.Griss) 	Common LISP 
C00121 00031	∂14-Jan-82  2032	Jonathan A. Rees <JAR at MIT-MC>   
C00124 00032	∂15-Jan-82  0109	RPG   	Rutgers lisp development project 
C00137 00033	∂15-Jan-82  0850	Scott.Fahlman at CMU-10A 	Multiple Values    
C00143 00034	∂15-Jan-82  0913	George J. Carrette <GJC at MIT-MC> 	multiple values.   
C00145 00035	∂15-Jan-82  2352	David A. Moon <Moon at MIT-MC> 	Multiple Values   
C00147 00036	∂16-Jan-82  0631	Scott.Fahlman at CMU-10A 	Re: Multiple Values
C00149 00037	∂16-Jan-82  0737	Daniel L. Weinreb <DLW at MIT-AI> 	Multiple Values
C00152 00038	∂16-Jan-82  1252	Griss at UTAH-20 (Martin.Griss) 	Kernel for Commaon LISP    
C00154 00039	∂16-Jan-82  1415	Richard M. Stallman <RMS at MIT-AI> 	Multiple Values   
C00157 00040	∂16-Jan-82  2033	Scott.Fahlman at CMU-10A 	Keyword sequence fns    
C00158 00041	∂17-Jan-82  0618	Griss at UTAH-20 (Martin.Griss) 	Agenda 
C00161 00042	∂17-Jan-82  1751	Feigenbaum at SUMEX-AIM 	more on Interlisp-VAX    
C00167 00043	∂17-Jan-82  1756	Guy.Steele at CMU-10A 	Sequence functions    
C00170 00044	∂17-Jan-82  2042	Earl A. Killian <EAK at MIT-MC> 	Sequence functions    
C00172 00045	∂18-Jan-82  0235	Richard M. Stallman <RMS at MIT-AI> 	subseq and consing
C00174 00046	∂18-Jan-82  0822	Don Morrison <Morrison at UTAH-20> 	Re: subseq and consing  
C00175 00047	∂18-Jan-82  1602	Daniel L. Weinreb <DLW at MIT-AI> 	subseq and consing  
C00176 00048	∂18-Jan-82  2203	Scott.Fahlman at CMU-10A 	Re: Sequence functions  
C00179 00049	∂19-Jan-82  1551	RPG  	Suggestion    
C00181 00050	∂19-Jan-82  2113	Griss at UTAH-20 (Martin.Griss) 	Re: Suggestion        
C00183 00051	∂20-Jan-82  1604	David A. Moon <MOON5 at MIT-AI> 	Keyword style sequence functions
C00200 00052	∂20-Jan-82  1631	Kim.fateman at Berkeley 	numerics and common-lisp 
C00209 00053	∂20-Jan-82  2008	Daniel L. Weinreb <dlw at MIT-AI> 	Suggestion     
C00211 00054	∂20-Jan-82  2234	Kim.fateman at Berkeley 	adding to kernel    
C00213 00055	∂18-Jan-82  1537	Daniel L. Weinreb <DLW at MIT-AI> 	subseq and consing  
C00214 00056	∂18-Jan-82  2203	Scott.Fahlman at CMU-10A 	Re: Sequence functions  
C00217 00057	∂19-Jan-82  1551	RPG  	Suggestion    
C00220 00058	∂19-Jan-82  2113	Griss at UTAH-20 (Martin.Griss) 	Re: Suggestion        
C00222 00059	∂19-Jan-82  2113	Fahlman at CMU-20C 	Re: Suggestion      
C00224 00060	∂20-Jan-82  1604	David A. Moon <MOON5 at MIT-AI> 	Keyword style sequence functions
C00241 00061	∂20-Jan-82  1631	Kim.fateman at Berkeley 	numerics and common-lisp 
C00250 00062	∂20-Jan-82  2008	Daniel L. Weinreb <dlw at MIT-AI> 	Suggestion     
C00252 00063	∂19-Jan-82  1448	Feigenbaum at SUMEX-AIM 	more on common lisp 
C00260 00064	∂20-Jan-82  2132	Fahlman at CMU-20C 	Implementations
C00268 00065	∂20-Jan-82  2234	Kim.fateman at Berkeley 	adding to kernel    
C00271 00066	∂21-Jan-82  1746	Earl A. Killian <EAK at MIT-MC> 	SET functions    
C00272 00067	∂21-Jan-82  1803	Richard M. Stallman <RMS at MIT-AI>
C00274 00068	∂21-Jan-82  1844	Don Morrison <Morrison at UTAH-20> 
C00277 00069	∂21-Jan-82  2053	George J. Carrette <GJC at MIT-MC> 
C00280 00070	∂21-Jan-82  1144	Sridharan at RUTGERS (Sri) 	S-1 CommonLisp   
C00291 00071	∂21-Jan-82  1651	Earl A. Killian <EAK at MIT-MC> 	SET functions    
C00292 00072	∂21-Jan-82  1803	Richard M. Stallman <RMS at MIT-AI>
C00294 00073	∂21-Jan-82  1844	Don Morrison <Morrison at UTAH-20> 
C00297 00074	∂21-Jan-82  2053	George J. Carrette <GJC at MIT-MC> 
C00299 00075	∂22-Jan-82  1842	Fahlman at CMU-20C 	Re: adding to kernel
C00303 00076	∂22-Jan-82  1914	Fahlman at CMU-20C 	Multiple values
C00305 00077	∂22-Jan-82  2132	Kim.fateman at Berkeley 	Re: adding to kernel
C00309 00078	∂23-Jan-82  0409	George J. Carrette <GJC at MIT-MC> 	adding to kernel   
C00313 00079	∂23-Jan-82  0910	RPG  
C00315 00080	∂23-Jan-82  1841	Fahlman at CMU-20C  
C00318 00081	∂23-Jan-82  2029	Fahlman at CMU-20C 	Re:  adding to kernel    
C00324 00082	∂24-Jan-82  0127	Richard M. Stallman <RMS at MIT-AI>
C00325 00083	∂24-Jan-82  0306	Richard M. Stallman <RMS at MIT-AI>
C00327 00084	∂24-Jan-82  1925	Daniel L. Weinreb <dlw at MIT-AI>  
C00329 00085	∂24-Jan-82  1925	Daniel L. Weinreb <dlw at MIT-AI>  
C00331 00086	∂24-Jan-82  2008	George J. Carrette <GJC at MIT-MC> 	adding to kernel   
C00335 00087	∂24-Jan-82  2227	Fahlman at CMU-20C 	Sequences 
C00337 00088	∂24-Jan-82  2246	Kim.fateman at Berkeley 	NIL/Macsyma    
C00339 00089	∂25-Jan-82  1558	DILL at CMU-20C 	eql => eq?   
C00342 00090	∂25-Jan-82  1853	Fahlman at CMU-20C 	Re: eql => eq? 
C00343 00091	∂27-Jan-82  1034	HEDRICK at RUTGERS (Mngr DEC-20's/Dir LCSR Comp Facility) 	Re: eql => eq?  
C00346 00092	∂27-Jan-82  1445	Jon L White <JONL at MIT-MC> 	Multiple mailing lists?  
C00347 00093	∂27-Jan-82  1438	Jon L White <JONL at MIT-MC> 	Two little suggestions for macroexpansion    
C00353 00094	∂27-Jan-82  2202	RPG  	MVLet    
C00356 00095	∂28-Jan-82  0901	Daniel L. Weinreb <dlw at MIT-AI> 	MVLet     
C00358 00096	∂24-Jan-82  0127	Richard M. Stallman <RMS at MIT-AI>
C00359 00097	∂24-Jan-82  0306	Richard M. Stallman <RMS at MIT-AI>
C00361 00098	∂24-Jan-82  1925	Daniel L. Weinreb <dlw at MIT-AI>  
C00363 00099	∂24-Jan-82  1925	Daniel L. Weinreb <dlw at MIT-AI>  
C00365 00100	∂24-Jan-82  2008	George J. Carrette <GJC at MIT-MC> 	adding to kernel   
C00369 00101	∂24-Jan-82  2227	Fahlman at CMU-20C 	Sequences 
C00371 00102	∂24-Jan-82  2246	Kim.fateman at Berkeley 	NIL/Macsyma    
C00373 00103	∂25-Jan-82  1436	Hanson at SRI-AI 	NIL and DEC VAX Common LISP
C00375 00104	∂25-Jan-82  1558	DILL at CMU-20C 	eql => eq?   
C00378 00105	∂25-Jan-82  1853	Fahlman at CMU-20C 	Re: eql => eq? 
C00379 00106	∂28-Jan-82  0901	Daniel L. Weinreb <dlw at MIT-AI> 	MVLet     
C00381 00107	∂28-Jan-82  1235	Fahlman at CMU-20C 	Re: MVLet      
C00386 00108	∂28-Jan-82  1416	Richard M. Stallman <rms at MIT-AI> 	Macro expansion suggestions 
C00388 00109	∂28-Jan-82  1914	Howard I. Cannon <HIC at MIT-MC> 	Macro expansion suggestions    
C00393 00110	∂27-Jan-82  1633	Jonl at MIT-MC Two little suggestions for macroexpansion
C00399 00111	∂28-Jan-82  1633	Fahlman at CMU-20C 	Re: Two little suggestions for macroexpansion
C00401 00112	∂29-Jan-82  0945	DILL at CMU-20C 	Re: eql => eq?    
C00405 00113	∂29-Jan-82  1026	Guy.Steele at CMU-10A 	Okay, you hackers
C00407 00114	∂29-Jan-82  1059	HEDRICK at RUTGERS (Mngr DEC-20's/Dir LCSR Comp Facility) 	Re: eql => eq?  
C00411 00115	∂29-Jan-82  1146	Guy.Steele at CMU-10A 	MACSYMA timing   
C00413 00116	∂29-Jan-82  1204	Guy.Steele at CMU-10A 	Re: eql => eq?   
C00415 00117	∂29-Jan-82  1225	George J. Carrette <GJC at MIT-MC> 	MACSYMA timing
C00418 00118	∂29-Jan-82  1324	HEDRICK at RUTGERS (Mngr DEC-20's/Dir LCSR Comp Facility) 	Re:  Re: eql => eq?  
C00419 00119	∂29-Jan-82  1332	HEDRICK at RUTGERS (Mngr DEC-20's/Dir LCSR Comp Facility) 	Re:  Re: eql => eq?  
C00420 00120	∂29-Jan-82  1336	Guy.Steele at CMU-10A 	Re: Re: eql => eq?    
C00422 00121	∂29-Jan-82  1654	Richard M. Stallman <RMS at MIT-AI> 	Trying to implement FPOSITION with LAMBDA-MACROs.    
C00425 00122	∂29-Jan-82  2149	Kim.fateman at Berkeley 	Okay, you hackers   
C00428 00123	∂29-Jan-82  2235	HIC at SCRC-TENEX 	Trying to implement FPOSITION with LAMBDA-MACROs.  
C00432 00124	∂30-Jan-82  0006	MOON at SCRC-TENEX 	Trying to implement FPOSITION with LAMBDA-MACROs and SUBSTs 
C00433 00125	∂30-Jan-82  0431	Kent M. Pitman <KMP at MIT-MC> 	Those two little suggestions for macroexpansion 
C00435 00126	∂30-Jan-82  1234	Eric Benson <BENSON at UTAH-20> 	Re: MVLet   
C00438 00127	∂30-Jan-82  1351	RPG  	MVlet    
C00439 00128	∂30-Jan-82  1405	Jon L White <JONL at MIT-MC> 	Comparison of "lambda-macros" and my "Two little suggestions ..."
C00447 00129	∂30-Jan-82  1446	Jon L White <JONL at MIT-MC> 	The format ((MACRO . f) ...)  
C00449 00130	∂30-Jan-82  1742	Fahlman at CMU-20C 	Re: MVlet      
C00451 00131	∂30-Jan-82  1807	RPG  	MVlet    
C00453 00132	∂30-Jan-82  1935	Guy.Steele at CMU-10A 	Forwarded message
C00456 00133	∂30-Jan-82  1952	Fahlman at CMU-20C 	Re: MVlet      
C00462 00134	∂30-Jan-82  2002	Fahlman at CMU-20C 	GETPR
C00464 00135	∂30-Jan-82  2201	Richard M. Stallman <RMS at MIT-AI>
C00465 00136	∂31-Jan-82  1116	Daniel L. Weinreb <dlw at MIT-AI> 	GETPR
C00466 00137	∂01-Feb-82  0752	Jon L White <JONL at MIT-MC> 	Incredible co-incidence about the format ((MACRO . f) ...)  
C00468 00138	∂01-Feb-82  0939	HIC at SCRC-TENEX 	Incredible co-incidence about the format ((MACRO . f) ...)   
C00472 00139	∂01-Feb-82  1014	Kim.fateman at Berkeley 	GETPR and compatibility  
C00477 00140	∂01-Feb-82  1034	HEDRICK at RUTGERS (Mngr DEC-20's/Dir LCSR Comp Facility) 	a proposal about compatibility 
C00479 00141	∂01-Feb-82  1039	Daniel L. Weinreb <DLW at MIT-AI> 	Re: MVLet      
C00482 00142	∂01-Feb-82  2315	Earl A. Killian <EAK at MIT-MC> 	Trying to implement FPOSITION with LAMBDA-MACROs and SUBSTs   
C00484 00143	∂01-Feb-82  2315	FEINBERG at CMU-20C 	Compatibility With Maclisp   
C00487 00144	∂01-Feb-82  2319	Earl A. Killian <EAK at MIT-MC> 	GET/PUT names    
C00489 00145	∂01-Feb-82  2319	Howard I. Cannon <HIC at MIT-MC> 	The right way   
C00493 00146	∂01-Feb-82  2321	Jon L White <JONL at MIT-MC> 	MacLISP name compatibility, and return values of update functions
C00498 00147	∂01-Feb-82  2322	Jon L White <JONL at MIT-MC> 	MVLet hair, and RPG's suggestion   
C00502 00148	∂02-Feb-82  0002	Guy.Steele at CMU-10A 	The right way    
C00504 00149	∂02-Feb-82  0110	Richard M. Stallman <RMS at MIT-AI>
C00506 00150	∂02-Feb-82  0116	David A. Moon <Moon at SCRC-TENEX at MIT-AI> 	Trying to implement FPOSITION with LAMBDA-MACROs and SUBSTs
C00508 00151	∂02-Feb-82  1005	Daniel L. Weinreb <DLW at MIT-AI>  
C00510 00152	∂02-Feb-82  1211	Eric Benson <BENSON at UTAH-20> 	Re: MacLISP name compatibility, and return values of update functions   
C00512 00153	∂02-Feb-82  1304	FEINBERG at CMU-20C 	a proposal about compatibility    
C00513 00154	∂02-Feb-82  1321	Masinter at PARC-MAXC 	Re: MacLISP name compatibility, and return values of update functions   
C00514 00155	∂02-Feb-82  1337	Masinter at PARC-MAXC 	SUBST vs INLINE, consistent compilation   
C00517 00156	∂02-Feb-82  1417	HEDRICK at RUTGERS (Mngr DEC-20's/Dir LCSR Comp Facility) 	Re: a proposal about compatibility  
C00522 00157	∂02-Feb-82  1539	Richard M. Stallman <RMS at MIT-AI> 	No policy is a good policy  
C00526 00158	∂02-Feb-82  1926	DILL at CMU-20C 	upward compatibility   
C00528 00159	∂02-Feb-82  2148	RPG  	MVLet    
C00529 00160	∂02-Feb-82  2223	Richard M. Stallman <RMS at MIT-AI>
C00531 00161	∂02-Feb-82  2337	David A. Moon <MOON at MIT-MC> 	upward compatibility   
C00533 00162	∂03-Feb-82  1622	Earl A. Killian <EAK at MIT-MC> 	SUBST vs INLINE, consistent compilation   
C00534 00163	∂04-Feb-82  1513	Jon L White <JONL at MIT-MC> 	"exceptions" possibly based on misconception and EVAL strikes again  
C00539 00164	∂04-Feb-82  2047	Howard I. Cannon <HIC at MIT-MC> 	"exceptions" possibly based on misconception and EVAL strikes again   
C00541 00165	∂05-Feb-82  0022	Earl A. Killian <EAK at MIT-MC> 	SUBST vs INLINE, consistent compilation   
C00542 00166	∂05-Feb-82  2247	Fahlman at CMU-20C 	Maclisp compatibility    
C00545 00167	∂06-Feb-82  1200	Daniel L. Weinreb <dlw at MIT-AI> 	Maclisp compatibility    
C00547 00168	∂06-Feb-82  1212	Daniel L. Weinreb <dlw at MIT-AI> 	Return values of SETF    
C00549 00169	∂06-Feb-82  1232	Daniel L. Weinreb <dlw at MIT-AI> 	MVLet     
C00551 00170	∂06-Feb-82  1251	HEDRICK at RUTGERS (Mngr DEC-20's/Dir LCSR Comp Facility) 	Re: Maclisp compatibility 
C00552 00171	∂06-Feb-82  1416	Eric Benson <BENSON at UTAH-20> 	Re: Maclisp compatibility  
C00554 00172	∂06-Feb-82  1429	Howard I. Cannon <HIC at MIT-MC> 	Return values of SETF
C00555 00173	∂06-Feb-82  2031	Fahlman at CMU-20C 	Value of SETF  
C00556 00174	∂06-Feb-82  2102	Fahlman at CMU-20C 	Re: MVLet      
C00558 00175	∂07-Feb-82  0129	Richard Greenblatt <RG at MIT-AI>  
C00560 00176	∂07-Feb-82  0851	Fahlman at CMU-20C  
C00562 00177	∂07-Feb-82  2234	David A. Moon <Moon at MIT-MC> 	Flags in property lists
C00563 00178	∂08-Feb-82  0749	Daniel L. Weinreb <DLW at MIT-MC> 	mv-call   
C00566 00179	∂08-Feb-82  0752	Daniel L. Weinreb <DLW at MIT-MC>  
C00568 00180	∂08-Feb-82  1256	Guy.Steele at CMU-10A 	Flat property lists   
C00569 00181	∂08-Feb-82  1304	Guy.Steele at CMU-10A 	The "Official" Rules  
C00571 00182	∂08-Feb-82  1410	Eric Benson <BENSON at UTAH-20> 	Re:  Flat property lists   
C00574 00183	∂08-Feb-82  1424	Don Morrison <Morrison at UTAH-20> 	Re:  Flat property lists
C00577 00184	∂08-Feb-82  1453	Richard M. Stallman <RMS at MIT-AI>
C00578 00185	∂19-Feb-82  1656	Scott E. Fahlman <FAHLMAN at CMU-20C> 	Revised sequence proposal 
C00579 00186	∂20-Feb-82  1845	Scott.Fahlman at CMU-10A 	Revised sequence proposal    
C00580 00187	∂21-Feb-82  2357	MOON at SCRC-TENEX 	Fahlman's new new sequence proposal, and an issue of policy 
C00587 00188	∂22-Feb-82  0729	Griss at UTAH-20 (Martin.Griss)    
C00589 00189	∂08-Feb-82  1222	Hanson at SRI-AI 	common Lisp 
C00594 00190	∂28-Feb-82  1158	Scott E. Fahlman <FAHLMAN at CMU-20C> 	T and NIL  
C00608 00191	∂28-Feb-82  1342	Scott E. Fahlman <FAHLMAN at CMU-20C> 	T and NIL addendum   
C00610 00192	∂28-Feb-82  1524	George J. Carrette <GJC at MIT-MC> 	T and NIL.    
C00615 00193	∂28-Feb-82  1700	Kim.fateman at Berkeley 	smoking things out of macsyma 
C00618 00194	∂28-Feb-82  1803	Scott E. Fahlman <FAHLMAN at CMU-20C> 	Re:  T and NIL. 
C00621 00195	∂28-Feb-82  2102	George J. Carrette <GJC at MIT-MC> 	T and NIL.    
C00623 00196	∂28-Feb-82  2333	George J. Carrette <GJC at MIT-MC> 	Take the hint.
C00625 00197	∂01-Mar-82  1356	HEDRICK at RUTGERS (Mngr DEC-20's/Dir LCSR Comp Facility) 	Re: T and NIL   
C00629 00198	∂01-Mar-82  2031	Richard M. Stallman <RMS at MIT-AI> 	Pronouncing ()    
C00631 00199	∂01-Mar-82  2124	Richard M. Stallman <RMS at MIT-AI> 	() and T.    
C00635 00200	∂02-Mar-82  1233	Jon L White <JONL at MIT-MC> 	NIL versus (), and more about predicates.    
C00641 00201	∂02-Mar-82  1322	Jon L White <JONL at MIT-MC> 	NOT and NULL: addendum to previous note 
C00642 00202	∂02-Mar-82  1322	George J. Carrette <GJC at MIT-MC> 	T and NIL.    
C00645 00203	∂02-Mar-82  1406	HEDRICK at RUTGERS (Mngr DEC-20's/Dir LCSR Comp Facility) 	I think I am missing something 
C00649 00204	∂03-Mar-82  1158	Eric Benson <BENSON at UTAH-20> 	The truth value returned by predicates    
C00651 00205	∂03-Mar-82  1337	Eric Benson <BENSON at UTAH-20> 	The truth value returned by predicates    
C00653 00206	∂03-Mar-82  1753	Richard M. Stallman <RMS at MIT-AI>
C00655 00207	∂04-Mar-82  1846	Earl A. Killian <EAK at MIT-MC> 	T and NIL   
C00656 00208	∂04-Mar-82  1846	Earl A. Killian <EAK at MIT-MC> 	Fahlman's new new sequence proposal, and an issue of policy   
C00658 00209	∂05-Mar-82  0101	Richard M. Stallman <RMS at MIT-AI> 	COMPOSE 
C00659 00210	∂05-Mar-82  0902	Jon L White <JONL at MIT-MC> 	What are you missing?  and "patching"  ATOM and LISTP  
C00663 00211	∂05-Mar-82  0910	Jon L White <JONL at MIT-MC> 	How useful will a liberated T and NIL be?    
C00666 00212	∂05-Mar-82  1129	MASINTER at PARC-MAXC 	NIL and T   
C00669 00213	∂05-Mar-82  1308	Kim.fateman at Berkeley 	aesthetics, NIL and T    
C00671 00214	∂05-Mar-82  2045	George J. Carrette <GJC at MIT-MC> 	I won't die if (SYMBOLP (NOT 'FOO)) => T, but really now...
C00675 00215	∂05-Mar-82  2312	Scott E. Fahlman <FAHLMAN at CMU-20C> 	Lexical Scoping 
C00677 00216	∂06-Mar-82  1218	Alan Bawden <ALAN at MIT-MC> 	What I still think about T and NIL 
C00679 00217	∂06-Mar-82  1251	Alan Bawden <ALAN at MIT-MC> 	What I still think about T and NIL 
C00681 00218	∂06-Mar-82  1326	Howard I. Cannon <HIC at MIT-MC> 	T/NIL 
C00682 00219	∂06-Mar-82  1351	Eric Benson <BENSON at UTAH-20> 	CAR of NIL  
C00683 00220	∂06-Mar-82  1429	KIM.jkf@Berkeley (John Foderaro) 	t and nil  
C00685 00221	∂06-Mar-82  1911	HEDRICK at RUTGERS (Mngr DEC-20's/Dir LCSR Comp Facility) 	Re: CAR of NIL  
C00689 00222	∂06-Mar-82  2306	JMC  
C00690 ENDMK
C⊗;
∂30-Dec-81  1117	Guy.Steele at CMU-10A 	Text-file versions of DECISIONS and REVISIONS documents  
Date: 30 December 1981 1415-EST (Wednesday)
From: Guy.Steele at CMU-10A
To: common-lisp at SU-AI
Subject:  Text-file versions of DECISIONS and REVISIONS documents
Message-Id: <30Dec81 141557 GS70@CMU-10A>

The files DECISIONS DOC and REVISIONS DOC  on directory  GLS;
at  MIT-MC  are available.  They are text files, as opposed to
PRESS files.  The former is 9958 lines long, and the latter is
1427.
--Guy

∂23-Dec-81  2255	Kim.fateman at Berkeley 	elementary functions
Date: 23 Dec 1981 22:48:00-PST
From: Kim.fateman at Berkeley
To: guy.steele@cmu-10a
Subject: elementary functions
Cc: Kim.jkf@UCB-C70, gjc@MIT-MC, griss@utah-20, jonl@MIT-MC, masinter@PARC-MAXC,
    rpg@SU-AI

I have no objection to making lisp work better with numerical computation.
I think that it is a far more complicated issue than you seem to think
to put in elementary functions.  Branch cuts are probably not hard.
APL's notion of a user-settable "fuzz" is gross.  Stan Brown's
model of arithmetic is (Ada notwithstanding) inadequate as a prescriptive
model (Brown agrees).  If you provide a logarithm function, are you
willing to bet that it will hold up to the careful scrutiny of people
like Kahan?
  
As for the vagaries of arithmetic in Franz, I hope such things will
get ironed out along with vagaries in the Berkeley UNIX system.  Kahan
and I intend to address such issues.  I think it is a mistake to
address such issues as LANGUAGE issues, though.

I have not seen Penfield's article (yet). 

As for the rational number implementation question, it seems to me
that implementation of rational numbers (as pairs) loses little by
being programmed in Lisp.  Writing bignums in lisp loses unless you
happen to have access to machine instructions like 64-bit divided by
32 bit, from Lisp.  

I would certainly like to see common lisp be successful;  if you
have specific plans for the arithmetic that you wish to get comments and/or
help on, please give them a wider circulation.  E.g. the IEEE
floating point committee might like to see how you might incorporate
good ideas in a language.
I would be glad to pass your plans on to them.

∂01-Jan-82  1600	Guy.Steele at CMU-10A 	Tasks: A Reminder and Plea 
Date:  1 January 1982 1901-EST (Friday)
From: Guy.Steele at CMU-10A
To: common-lisp at SU-AI
Subject:  Tasks: A Reminder and Plea
Message-Id: <01Jan82 190137 GS70@CMU-10A>

At the November meeting, a number of issues were deferred with the
understanding that certain people would make concrete proposals for
consideration and inclusion in the second draft of the manual.  I
promised to get the second draft out in January, and to do that I need
those proposals pretty soon.  I am asking to get them in two weeks (by
January 15).  Ideally they would already be in SCRIBE format, but I'll
settle for any reasonable-looking ASCII file of text approximately in
the style of the manual.  BOLIO files are okay too; I can semi-automate
BOLIO to SCRIBE conversion.  I would prefer not to get rambling prose,
outlines, or sentence fragments; just nice, clean, crisp text that
requires only typographical editing before inclusion in the manual.
(That's the goal, anyway; I realize I may have to do some
industrial-strength editing for consistency.)  A list of the outstanding
tasks follows.

--Guy

GLS: Propose a method for allowing special forms to have a dual
implementation as both a macro (for user and compiler convenience)
and as a fexpr (for interpreter speed).  Create a list of primitive
special forms not easily reducible via macros to other primitives.
As part of this suggest an alternative to FUNCTIONP of two arguments.

MOON: Propose a rigorous mathematical formulation of the treatment
of the optional tolerance-specification argument for MOD and REMAINDER.
(I had a crack at this and couldn't figure it out, though I think I
came close.)

GLS: Propose specifications for lexical catch, especially a good name for it.

Everybody: Propose a clean and consistent declaration system.

MOON/DLW/ALAN: Propose a cleaned-up version of LOOP.  Alter it to handle
most interesting sequence operations gracefully.

SEF: Propose a complete set of keyword-style sequence operations.

GLS: Propose a set of functional-style sequence operations.

GJC/RLB: Polish the VAXMAX proposal for feature sets and #+ syntax.

ALAN: Propose a more extensible character-syntax definition system.

GLS: Propose a set of functions to interface to a filename/pathname
system in the spirit of the LISP Machine's.

LISPM: Propose a new error-handling system.

LISPM: Propose a new package system.


∂08-Dec-81  0650	Griss at UTAH-20 (Martin.Griss) 	PSL progress report   
Date:  8 Dec 1981 0743-MST
From: Griss at UTAH-20 (Martin.Griss)
Subject: PSL progress report
To: rpg at SU-AI
cc: griss at UTAH-20

How was common LISP meeting?
Did you meet Ohlander?

Excuse me if following remailed to you, seems to be a mailer bug:
                            PSL Interest Group
                              2 December 1981


     Since my last message at the end of October, we have made significant
progress on the VAX version of PSL. Most of the effort this last month has
been directed at VAX PSL, with some utility work on the DEC-20 and Apollo.
Please send a message if you wish to be removed from this mailing LIST, or
wish other names to be added.

	Martin L. Griss,
	CS Dept., 3160 MEB,
	University of Utah,
	Salt Lake City, Utah 84112.
	(801)-581-6542

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Last month, we started the VAX macros and LAP to UNIX as converter in
earnest.  We used the PSL-20 V2 sources and PSL to MIDAS compiler c-macros
and tables as a guide. After some small pieces of code were tested, cross
compilation on the DEC-20 and assembly on the VAX proceeded full-bore. Just
before Thanksgiving, there was rapid progress resulting in the first
executing PSL on the VAX. This version consisted mostly of the kernel
modules of the PSL-20 version, without the garbage collector, resident LAP
and some debugging tools. Most of the effort in implementing these smaller
modules is the requirement for a small amount of LAP to provide the
compiled function/interpreted function interface, and efficient variable
binding operations.  The resident LAP has to be newly written for the VAX.
The c-macros and compiler of course have been fully tested in the process
of building the kernel.

It was decided to produce a new stop-and-copy (two space) collector for
PSL-VAX, to replace the PSL-20 compacting collector.  This collector was
written in about a day and tested by loading it into PSL-20 and dynamically
redefining the compacting collector. On the DEC-20, it seems about 50%
faster than the compacting collector, and MUCH simpler to maintain. It will
be used for the Extended addressing PSL-20. This garbage collector is now
in use with PSL-VAX.

Additional ("non-kernel") modules have also been incorporated in this
cross-compilation phase (they are normally loaded as LAP into PSL-20) to
provide a usable interpreted PSL. PSL-VAX V1 now runs all of the Standard
LISP test file, and most utility modules run interpretively (RLISP parser,
structure editor, etc).  We may compile the RLISP parser and support in the
next build and have a complete RLISP for use until we have resident LAP and
compiler.  The implementation of the resident LAP, a SYSCALL function, etc
should take a few weeks. One possibility is to look at the Franz LISP fasl
and object file loader, and consider using the Unix assembler in a lower
fork with a fasl loader.

Preliminary timings of small interpreted code segments indicate that this
version PSL runs somewhat slower than FranzLISP. There are functions that
are slower and functions that are faster (usually because of SYSLISP
constructs).  We will time some compiled code shortly (have to
cross-compile and link into kernel in current PSL) to identify good and bad
constructs.  We will also spend some time studying the code emitted, and
change the code-generator tables to produce the next version, which we
expect to be quite a bit faster. The current code generator does not use
any three address or indexing mode operations.

We will shortly concentrate on the first Apollo version of PSL.  We do not
expect any major surprises. Most of the changes from the PSL-20 system
(byte/word conflicts) have now been completely flushed out in the VAX
version.  The 68000 tables should be modeled very closely on the VAX
tables. The current Apollo assembler, file-transfer program, and debugger
are not as powerful as the corresponding VAX tools, and this will make work
a little harder. To compensate, there will be less source changes to check
out.



M
-------

Eric
Just finished my long trip plus recovery from East coast flu's etc. Can
you compile the TAK function for me using your portable compiler and send
me the code. Also, could you time it on (TAK 18. 12. 6.). Here's the code
I mean:

(defun tak (x y z)
       (cond ((not (< y x))
	      z)
	     (t (tak (tak (1- x) y z)
		     (tak (1- y) z x)
		     (tak (1- z) x y))))))

I'm in the process of purring together a synopsis of the results from
the meeting. In short, from your viewpoint, we decided that it would be
necessary for us (Common Lisp) to specify a small virtual machine and
for us to then supply to all interested parties the rest of the system
in Common Lisp code. This means that there would be a smallish number
of primitives that you would need to implement. I assume that this
is satisfactory for the Utah contingent. 

Unfortunately, a second meeting will be necessary to complete the agenda 
since we did not quite finish. In fact, I was unable to travel to
Washington on this account.
∂15-Dec-81  0829	Guy.Steele at CMU-10A 	Arrgghhh blag    
Date: 15 December 1981 1127-EST (Tuesday)
From: Guy.Steele at CMU-10A
To: rpg at SU-AI
Subject:  Arrgghhh blag
Message-Id: <15Dec81 112717 GS70@CMU-10A>

Foo.  I didn't want to become involved in an ANSI standard, and I have
told people so. or one thing, it looks like a power play and might
alienate people such as the InterLISP crowd, and I wouldn't blame them.
In any case, I don't think it is appropriate to consider this until
we at least have a full draft manual.  If MRG wants to fight that fight,
let him at it.
I am working on collating the bibliographic entries.  I have most of them
on-line already, but just have to convert from TJ6 to SC
RIBE format.  I agree that the abstract is not very exciting -- it is
practically stodgy.  I was hoping you would know how to give it some oomph,
some sparkle.  If not, we'll just send it out as is and try to sparkle up
the paper if it is accepted.  Your siggestions about explaining TNBIND
and having a diagram are good.
--Q

∂18-Dec-81  0918	HEDRICK at RUTGERS (Mngr DEC-20's/Dir LCSR Comp Facility) 	information about Common Lisp implementation  
Date: 18 Dec 1981 1214-EST
From: HEDRICK at RUTGERS (Mngr DEC-20's/Dir LCSR Comp Facility)
Subject: information about Common Lisp implementation
To: rpg at SU-AI, jonl at MIT-AI

We are about to sign a contract with DEC's LCG whereby they sponsor us
to produce an extended addressing Lisp.  We are still discussing whether
this should be Interlisp or Common Lisp.  I can see good arguments in
both directions, and do not have a strong perference, but I would
slightly prefer Common Lisp.  Do you know whether there are any
implementations of Common Lisp, or something reasonably close to it? I
am reconciled to producing my own "kernel", probably in assembly
language, though I have some other candidates in mind too. But I would
prefer not to have to do all of the Lisp code from scratch.

As you may know, DEC is probably going to support a Lisp for the VAX. My
guess is that we will be very likely to do the same dialect that  is
decided upon there.  The one exception would be if it looks like MIT (or
someone else) is going to do an extended implementation of Common Lisp.
If so, then we would probably do Interlisp, for completeness.

We have some experience in Lisp implementation now, since Elisp (the
extended implementation of Rutgers/UCI Lisp) is essentially finished.
(I.e. there are some extensions I want to put in, and some optimizations,
but it does allow any sane R/UCI Lisp code to run.) The interpreter now
runs faster than the original R/UCI lisp interpreter. Compiled code is
slightly slower, but we think this is due to the fact that we are not
yet compiling some things in line that should be. (Even CAR is not
always done in line!)  The compiler is Utah's portable compiler,
modified for the R/UCI Lisp dialect.  It does about what you would want
a Lisp compiler to do, except that it does not open code arithmetic
(though a later compiler has some abilities in that direction).  I
suspect that for a Common Lisp implementation we would try to use the
PDP-10 Maclisp compiler as a base, unless it is too crufty to understand
or modify.  Changing compilers to produce extended code turns out not to
be a very difficult job.
-------

∂21-Dec-81  0702	HEDRICK at RUTGERS (Mngr DEC-20's/Dir LCSR Comp Facility) 	Re: Extended-addressing Common Lisp 
Date: 21 Dec 1981 0957-EST
From: HEDRICK at RUTGERS (Mngr DEC-20's/Dir LCSR Comp Facility)
Subject: Re: Extended-addressing Common Lisp
To: JONL at MIT-XX
cc: rpg at SU-AI
In-Reply-To: Your message of 18-Dec-81 1835-EST

thanks.  At the moment the problem is that DEC is not sure whether they
are interested in Common Lisp or Interlisp.  We will probably
follow the decision they make for the VAX, which should be done
sometime within a month.  What surprised me about that was from what I
can hear one of Interlisp's main advantages was supposed to be that the
project was further along on the VAX than the NIL project.  That sounds
odd to me.  I thought NIL had been released.  You might want to talk
with some of the folks at DEC.  The only one I know is Kalman Reti,
XCON.RETI@DEC-MARLBORO.
-------

∂21-Dec-81  1101	HEDRICK at RUTGERS (Mngr DEC-20's/Dir LCSR Comp Facility) 	Re: Common Lisp      
Date: 21 Dec 1981 1355-EST
From: HEDRICK at RUTGERS (Mngr DEC-20's/Dir LCSR Comp Facility)
Subject: Re: Common Lisp   
To: RPG at SU-AI
In-Reply-To: Your message of 21-Dec-81 1323-EST

I am very happy to hear this.  we have used their compiler for Elisp,
as you may know, and have generally been following their work.  I
have been very impressed also, and would be very happy to see their
work get into something that is going to be more widely used them
Standard Lisp.
-------

∂21-Dec-81  1512	HEDRICK at RUTGERS (Mngr DEC-20's/Dir LCSR Comp Facility) 	Common Lisp
Date: 21 Dec 1981 1806-EST
From: HEDRICK at RUTGERS (Mngr DEC-20's/Dir LCSR Comp Facility)
Subject: Common Lisp
To: rpg at SU-AI, griss at UTAH-20

I just had a conversation with JonL which I found to be somewhat
unsettling.  I had hoped that Common Lisp was a sign that the Maclisp
community was willing to start doing a common development effort. It
begins to look like this is not the case.  It sounds to me like the most
we can hope for is a bunch of Lisps that will behave quite differently,
have completely different user facilities, but will have a common subset
of language facilities which will allow knowlegable users to write
transportable code, if they are careful.  I.e. it looks a lot like the
old Standard Lisp effort, wherein you tried to tweak existing
implementations to support the Standard Lisp primitives.  I thought more
or less everyone agreed that hadn't worked so well, which is why the new
efforts at Utah to do something really transportable.  I thought
everybody agreed that these days the way you did a Lisp was to write
some small kernel in an implementation language, and then have a lot of
Lisp code, and that the Lisp code would be shared.

Supposing that we and DEC do agree to proceed with Common Lisp, would
you be interested in starting a Common Lisp sub-conspiracy, i.e. a group
of people interested in a shared Common Lisp implementation?  While we
are going to have support from DEC, that support is going to be $70K
(including University overhead) which is going to be a drop in the
bucket if we have to do a whole system, rather than just a VM and some
tweaking.

-------

∂22-Dec-81  0811	Kim.fateman at Berkeley 	various: arithmetic;  commonlisp broadcasts  
Date: 22 Dec 1981 08:04:24-PST
From: Kim.fateman at Berkeley
To: guy.steele@cmu-10a
Subject: various: arithmetic;  commonlisp broadcasts
Cc: gjc@mit-mc, griss@utah-20, Kim.jkf@Berkeley, jonl@mit-mc, masinter@parc-maxc, rpg@su-ai

seem to include token representatives from berkeley (jkf) and utah (dm).
I think that including fateman@berkeley and griss@utah, too, would be nice.

I noticed in the the interlisp representative's report (the first to arrive
in "clear text" (not press format), that arithmetic needs are being
dictated in such a way as to be "as much as you would want for an
algebraic manipulation system such as Macsyma."   Since ratios and
complex numbers are not supported in the base Maclisp, I wonder why
they would be considered important to have in the base common lisp?

Personally, having the common lisp people dictate the results of
elementary functions, the semantics of bigfloat (what happened to
bigfloat? Is it gone?), single and double...
and such, seems overly ambitious and unnecessary.
No other language, even Fortran or ADA does much of this, and what it
does is usually not very good.

The true argument for including such stuff is NOT requirements of 
algebraic  manipulation stuff, but the prospect of doing
ARITHMETIC manipulation stuff with C.L.  Since only a few people are
familiar with Macsyma and Macsyma-like systems, requirements expressed
in the form "macsyma needs it"  seem unarguable.  But they are not...

∂22-Dec-81  0847	Griss at UTAH-20 (Martin.Griss) 	[Griss (Martin.Griss): Re: Common Lisp]   
Date: 22 Dec 1981 0944-MST
From: Griss at UTAH-20 (Martin.Griss)
Subject: [Griss (Martin.Griss): Re: Common Lisp]
To: rpg at SU-AI
cc: griss at UTAH-20

This is part of my response to Hedrick's last message. I guess I dont know
what JonL siad to him... I feel that I would be able to make more informed
decisions, and to interact more on Common LISP if I was on the mailing list.
I believe that PSL is pretty viable replacement for Standard LISP, and 
maybe have some kernel for CL. We are on a course now that really wants us to
finish our current "new-LISP" and to begin using it for applications in next
2-3 months (eg NSF and Boeing support). I think having association with CL
would help some funding efforts, maybe ARPA, Schlumberger, etc.

Perhaps we could talk on phone?
M
                ---------------

Date: 22 Dec 1981 0940-MST
From: Griss (Martin.Griss)
Subject: Re: Common Lisp
To: HEDRICK at RUTGERS
cc: Griss
In-Reply-To: Your message of 21-Dec-81 1606-MST

   Some more thoughts. Actually, I havent heard anything "official" about
decisions on CommonLISP. RPG visited here, and I think our concerns that CL
definition was too large (even larger than InterLISP VM), helped formulate
a Kernel+CL extension files.  Clearly that is what we are doing now in PSL,
building on relatively successful parts of Standard LISP, such as compiler,
etc. (SL worked well enough for us, just didnt have resources to do more
then).  I agree that JonL's comments as relayed by you sound much more
Anarchistic...

  I would really like to get involved in Common LISP, probably do VAX and
68000, since I guess you seem to be snapping up DEC-20 market. I currently
plan to continue with PSL on 20, VAX and 68000, since we are almost done
first round. VAX 90% complete and 68000 partially underway. In same sense
that SYSLISP could be basis for your 20 InterLISP, I think SYSLISP and some
of PSL could be transportable kernel for CL.

I need of course to find more funding, I cant cover out of my NSF effort,
since we are just about ready to start using PSL. Ill be teaching class
using PSL on DEC-20 and VAX (maybe even 68000?) this quarter, get soem
Algebra and Graphics projects underway. I will of course strive to be as CL
compatible as I can afford at this time.
-------
-------

∂23-Dec-81 1306	Guy.Steele at CMU-10A 	Re: various: arithmetic; commonlisp broadcasts 
Date: 23 December 1981 0025-EST (Wednesday)
From: Guy.Steele at CMU-10A
To: Kim.fateman at UCB-C70
Subject:  Re: various: arithmetic; commonlisp broadcasts
CC: gjc at MIT-MC, griss at utah-20, Kim.jkf at UCB-C70, jonl at MIT-MC,
    masinter at PARC-MAXC, rpg at SU-AI
In-Reply-To:  Kim.fateman@Berkeley's message of 22 Dec 81 11:06-EST
Message-Id: <23Dec81 002535 GS70@CMU-10A>

I sent the mail to the specified representatives of Berkeley and Utah
not because they were "token" but because they were the ones that had
actually contributed substantially to the discussion of outstanding issues.
I assumed that they would pass on the news.  I'll be glad to add you to
the mailing list if you really want that much more junk mail.

It should be noted that the InterLISP representative's report is just that:
the report of the InterLISP representative.  I think it is an excellent
report, but do not necessarily agree with all of its value judgements
and perspectives.  Therefore the motivations induced by vanMelle and
suggested in his report are not necessarily the true ones of the other
people involved.  I assume, however, that they accurately reflect vanMelle's
*perception* of people's motives, and as such are a valuable contribution
(because after all people may not understand their own motives well, or
may not realize how well or poorly they are communicating their ideas!).

You ask why Common LISP should support ratios and complex numbers, given
that MacLISP did not and yet MACSYMA got built anyway.  In response,
I rhetorically ask why MacLISP should have supported bignums, since
the PDP-10 does not?  Ratios were introduced primarily because they are
useful, they are natural for novices to use (at least as natural as
binary floating-point, with all its odd quirks, and with the advantage
of calculating exact results, such as (* 3 1/3) => 1, *always*), and
they solve problems with the quotient function.  Complex numbers were
motivated primarily by the S-1, which can handle complex floating-point
numbers and "Gaussian fixnums" primitively.  They need not be in Common
LISP, I suppose, but they are not much work to add.

The results of elementary functions are not being invented in a vacuum,
as you have several times insinuated, nor are the Common LISP implementors
going off and inventing some arbitrary new thing.  I have researched
the implementation, definition, and use of complex numbers in Algol 68,
PL/I, APL, and FORTRAN, and the real elementary functions in another
half-dozen languages.  The definitions of branch cuts and boundary cases,
which are in general not agreed on by any mathematicians at all (they tend
to define them *ad hoc* for the purpose at hand), are taken from a paper
by Paul Penfield for the APL community, in which he considers the problem
at length, weighs alternatives, and justifies his results according to
ten general principles, among which are consistency, keeping branch cuts
away from the positive real axis, preserving identities at boundaries,
and so on.  This paper has appeared in the APL '81 conference.  I agree that
mistakes have been made in other programming languages, but that does not
mean we should hide our heads in the sand.  A serious effort is being made
to learn from the past.  I think this effort is more substantial than will
be made by the dozens of Common LISP users who will have to write their
own trig functions if the language does not provide them.

Even if a mistake is made, it can be compensated for.  MACSYMA presently
has to compensate for MacLISP's ATAN function, whose range is 0 to 2*pi
(for most purposes -pi to pi is more appropriate, and certainly more
conventional).

[Could I inquire as to whether (FIX 1.0E20) still produces a smallish
negative number in Franz LISP?]

I could not agree more that all of this is relevant, not to *algebraic*
manipulation, but to *arithmetic* manipulation (although certainly the
presence of rational arithmetic will relieve MACSYMA of that particular
small burden).  But there is no good reason why LISP cannot become a
useful computational and well as symbolic language.  In particular,
certain kinds of AI work such as vision and speech research require
great amounts of numerical computation.  I know that you advocate
methods for linking FORTRAN or C programs to LISP for this purpose.
That is well and good, but I (for one) would like it also to be
practical to do it all in LISP if one so chooses.  LISP has already
expanded its horizons to support text editors and disk controllers;
why not also number-crunching?

--Guy

∂18-Dec-81  1533	Jon L. White <JONL at MIT-XX> 	Extended-addressing Common Lisp   
Date: 18 Dec 1981 1835-EST
From: Jon L. White <JONL at MIT-XX>
Subject: Extended-addressing Common Lisp
To: Hedrick at RUTGERS
cc: rpg at SU-AI

Sounds likea win for you to do it.  As far as I know, no one else
is going to do it (at least not now).  Probably some hints from
the NIL design would be good for you -- at one time the
file MC:NIL;VMACH >  gave a bunch of details about the
NIL "virtual machine".  Probably you should get in personal
touch with me (phone or otherwise) to chat about such "kernels".
-------

∂21-Dec-81  0717	HEDRICK at RUTGERS (Mngr DEC-20's/Dir LCSR Comp Facility) 	Re: Common Lisp      
Date: 21 Dec 1981 1012-EST
From: HEDRICK at RUTGERS (Mngr DEC-20's/Dir LCSR Comp Facility)
Subject: Re: Common Lisp   
To: RPG at SU-AI
In-Reply-To: Your message of 20-Dec-81 2304-EST

thanks.  Are you sure Utah is producing Common Lisp?  they have a thing
they call Standard Lisp, which is something completely different.  I have
never heard of a Common Lisp project there, and I work very closely with
their Lisp development people so I think I would have.
-------

I visited there the middle of last month for about 3 days and talked
the technical side of Common Lisp being implemented in their style. Martin told
me that if we only insisted on a small virtual machine with most of the
rest in Lisp code from the Common Lisp people he'd like to do it.

I've been looking at their stuff pretty closely for the much behind schedule
Lisp evaluation thing and I'm pretty impressed with them. We discussed
grafting my S-1 Lisp compiler front end on top of their portable compiler.
			-rpg-
∂22-Dec-81  0827	Griss at UTAH-20 (Martin.Griss) 	Re: various: arithmetic;  commonlisp broadcasts
Date: 22 Dec 1981 0924-MST
From: Griss at UTAH-20 (Martin.Griss)
Subject: Re: various: arithmetic;  commonlisp broadcasts
To: Kim.fateman at UCB-C70, guy.steele at CMU-10A
cc: gjc at MIT-MC, Kim.jkf at UCB-C70, jonl at MIT-MC, masinter at PARC-MAXC,
    rpg at SU-AI, Griss at UTAH-20
In-Reply-To: Your message of 22-Dec-81 0905-MST

I agree with Dick re being on the commonlisp mailing list. The PSL effort
is a more modest atempt at defining a transportable modern LISP, extending
Standard LISP with more powerful and efficient functions. I find no trace
of DM@utah-20 on our system, and have tried various aliases, still with
no luck.

Martin
-------

∂04-Jan-82  1754	Kim.fateman at Berkeley 	numbers in common lisp   
Date: 4 Jan 1982 17:54:03-PST
From: Kim.fateman at Berkeley
To: fahlman@cmu-10a, guy.steele@cmu-10a, moon@mit-ai, rpg@su-ai
Subject: numbers in common lisp
Cc: Kim.jkf@Berkeley, Kim.sklower@Berkeley


*** Issue 81: Complex numbers. Allow SQRT and LOG to produce results in
whatever form is necessary to deliver the mathematically defined result.

RJF:  This is problematical. The mathematically defined result is not
necessarily agreed upon.  Does Log(0) produce an error or a symbol?
(e.g. |log-of-zero| ?)  If a symbol, what happens when you try to
do arithmetic on it? Does sin(x) give up after some specified max x,
or continue to be a periodic function up to limit of machine range,
as on the HP 34?  Is accuracy specified in addition to precision?
Is it possible to specify rounding modes by flag setting or by
calling specific rounding-versions e.g. (plus-round-up x y) ? Such
features make it possible to implement interval arithmetic nicely.
Can one trap (signal, throw) on underflow, overflow,...
It would be a satisfying situation if common lisp, or at least a
superset of it, could exploit the IEEE standard. (Prof. Kahan would
much rather that language standardizers NOT delve too deeply into this,
leaving the semantics  (or "arithmetics") to specialists.)

Is it the case that a complex number could be implemented by
#C(x y) == (complex x y) ?  in which case  (real z) ==(cadr z),
(etc); Is a complex "atomic" in the lisp sense, or is it
the case that (eq (numerator #C(x y)) (numerator #C(x z)))?
Can one "rplac←numerator"?
If one is required to implement another type of atom for the
sake of rationals and another for complexes,
and another for ratios of complexes, then the
utility of this had better be substantial, and the implementation
cost modest.  In the case of x and y rational, there are a variety of
ways of representing x + i*y.  For example, it
is always possible to rationalize the denominator, but is it
required?
If  #R(1 2)  == (rat 1 2), is it the case that
(numerator r) ==(cadr r) ?  what is the numerator of (1/2+i)?

Even if you insist that all complex numbers are floats, not rationals,
you have multiple precisions to deal with.  Is it allowed to 
compute intermediate results to higher precision, or must one truncate
(or round) to some target precision in-between operations?

.......
Thus (SQRT -1.0) -> #C(0.0 1.0) and (LOG -1.0) -> #C(0.0 3.14159265).
Document all this carefully so that the user who doesn't care about
complex numbers isn't bothered too much.  As a rule, if you only play
with integers you won't see floating-point numbers, and if you only
play with non-complex numbers you won't see complex numbers.
.......
RJF: You've given 2 examples where, presumably, integers
are converted not only into floats, but into complex numbers. Your
rule does not seem to be a useful characterization. 
Note also that, for example, asin(1.5) is complex.

*** Issue 82: Branch cuts and boundary cases in mathematical
functions. Tentatively consider compatibility with APL on the subject of
branch cuts and boundary cases.
.......
RJF:Certainly gratuitous differences with APL, Fortran, PL/I etc are 
not a good idea!
.....

*** Issue 83: Fuzzy numerical comparisons. Have a new function FUZZY=
which takes three arguments: two numbers and a fuzz (relative
tolerance), which defaults in a way that depends on the precision of the
first two arguments.

.......
RJF: Why is this considered a language issue (in Lisp!), when the primary
language for numerical work (Fortran, not APL) does not?  The computation
of absolute and relative errors are sufficiently simple that not much
would be added by making this part of the language.)  I believe the fuzz business is used to cover
up the fact that some languages do not support integers. In such systems,
some computations  result in 1.99999 vs. 2.00000 comparisons, even though
both numbers are "integers". 

Incidentally, on "mod" of floats, I think that what you want is
like the "integer-part" of the IEEE proposal.  The EMOD instruction on 
the VAX is a brain-damaged attempt to do range-reductions.
.......

*** Issue 93: Complete set of trigonometric functions? Add ASIN, ACOS,
and TAN.


*** Issue 95: Hyperbolic functions. Add SINH, COSH, TANH, ASINH, ACOSH,
and ATANH.
.....
also useful are log(1+x) and exp(1+x).  


*** Issue 96: Are several versions of pi necessary? Eliminate the
variables SHORT-PI, SINGLE-PI, DOUBLE-PI, and LONG-PI, retaining only
PI.  Encourage the user to write such things as (SHORT-FLOAT PI),
(SINGLE-FLOAT (/ PI 2)), etc., when appropriate.
......
RJF: huh?  why not #(times 4 (atan 1.0)),  #(times 4 (atan 1.0d0)) etc.
It seems you are placing a burden on the implementors and discussants
of common lisp to write such trivial programs when the same thing
could be accomplished by a comment in the manual.

.......
.......
RJF: Sorry if the above comments sound overly argumentative.  I realize they
are in general not particularly constructive. 
I believe the group here at UCB will be making headway in many 
of the directions required as part of the IEEE support.

∂15-Jan-82  0850	Scott.Fahlman at CMU-10A 	Multiple Values    
Date: 15 January 1982 1124-EST (Friday)
From: Scott.Fahlman at CMU-10A
To: common-lisp at su-ai
Subject:  Multiple Values
CC: Scott.Fahlman at CMU-10A
Message-Id: <15Jan82 112415 SF50@CMU-10A>


I hate to rock the boat, but I would like to re-open one of the issues
supposedly settled at the November meeting, namely issue 55: whether to
go with the simple Lisp Machine style multiple-value receving forms, or
to go with the more complex forms in the Swiss Cheese Edition, which
provide full lambda-list syntax.

My suggestion was that we go with the simple forms and also provide the
Multiple-Value-Call construct, which more or less subsumes the
interesting uses for the Lambda-list forms.  The latter is quite easy
to implement, at least in Spice Lisp and I believe also in Lisp Machine
Lisp: you open the specified function call frame, evaluate the
arguments (which may return multiples) leaving all returned values on
the stack, then activate the call.  The normal argument-passing
machinery  (which is highly optimized) does all the lambda grovelling.
Furthermore, since this is only a very slight variation on a normal
function call, we should not be screwed in the future by unanticipated
interactions between this and, say, the declaration mechanism.

Much to my surprise, the group's decision was to go with all of the
above, but also to require that the lambda-hacking forms be supported.
This gives me real problems.  Given the M-V-CALL construct, I think
that these others are quite useless and likely to lead to many bad
interactions: this is now the only place where general lambda-lists have
to be grovelled outside of true function calls and defmacro.  I am not
willing to implement yet another variation on lambda-grovelling
just to include these silly forms, unless someone can show me that they
are more useful than I think they are.

The November vote might reflect the notion that M-V-LET and M-V-SETQ
can be implemented merely as special cases of M-V-CALL.  Note however,
that the bodies of the M-V-LET and M-V-SETQ forms are defined as
PROGNs, and will see a different set of local variables than they would
see if turned into a function to be called.  At least, that will be the
case unless Guy can come up with some way of hacking lexical closures
so as to make embedded lambdas see the lexical binding environment in
which they are defined.  Right now, for me at least, it is unclear
whether this can be done for all Common Lisp implementations with low
enough cost that we can make it a required feature.  In the meantime, I
think it is a real mistake to include in the language any constructs
that require a successful solution to this problem if they are to be
implemented decently.

So my vote (with the maximum number of exclamation points) continues to
be that Common Lisp should include only the Lisp Machine style forms,
plus M-V-CALL of multiple arguments.  Are the other forms really so
important to the rest of you?

All in all, I think that the amount of convergence made in the November
meeting was really remarkable, and that we are surprisingly close to
winning big on this effort.

-- Scott

∂15-Jan-82  0913	George J. Carrette <GJC at MIT-MC> 	multiple values.   
Date: 15 January 1982 12:14-EST
From: George J. Carrette <GJC at MIT-MC>
Subject: multiple values.
To: Scott.Fahlman at CMU-10A
cc: Common-lisp at SU-AI

[1] I think your last note has some incorrect assumptions about how
    the procedure call mechanism will work on future Lisp machines.
    Not that the assumption isn't reasonable, but as I recall the procedure
    ARGUMENT mechanism and the mechanism for passing the back
    the FIRST VALUE was designed to be inconsistent with the mechanism
    for passing the rest of the values. This puts a whole different
    perspective on the language semantics.
[2] At least one implementation, NIL, guessed that there would be
    demand in the future for various lambda extensions, so a
    sufficiently general lambda-grovelling mechanism was painlessly
    introduce from the begining.

∂15-Jan-82  2352	David A. Moon <Moon at MIT-MC> 	Multiple Values   
Date: Saturday, 16 January 1982, 02:36-EST
From: David A. Moon <Moon at MIT-MC>
Subject: Multiple Values
To: Scott.Fahlman at CMU-10A
Cc: common-lisp at su-ai

We are planning for implementation of the new multiple-value receiving
forms with &optional and &rest, on the L machine, but are unlikely to
be able to implement them on the present Lisp machine without a significant
amount of work.  I would just as soon see them flushed, but am willing
to implement them if the concensus is to keep them.

If by lambda-grovelling you mean (as GJC seems to think you mean) a
subroutine in the compiler that parses out the &optionals, that is about
0.5% of the work involved.  If by lambda-grovelling you mean the generated
code in a compiled function that takes some values and defaults the
unsupplied optionals, indeed that is where the hair comes in, since in
most implementations it can't be -quite- the same as the normal function-entry
case of what might seem to be the same thing.

∂16-Jan-82  0631	Scott.Fahlman at CMU-10A 	Re: Multiple Values
Date: 16 January 1982 0930-EST (Saturday)
From: Scott.Fahlman at CMU-10A
To: David A. Moon <Moon at MIT-MC> 
Subject:  Re: Multiple Values
CC: common-lisp at su-ai
In-Reply-To:  David A. Moon's message of 16 Jan 82 02:36-EST
Message-Id: <16Jan82 093009 SF50@CMU-10A>


As Moon surmises, my concern for "Lambda-grovelling" was indeed about
needing a second, slightly different version of the whole binding and
defaulting and rest-ifying machinery, not about the actual parsing of
the Lambda-list syntax which, as GJC points out, can be mostly put into
a universal function of its own.
-- Scott

∂16-Jan-82  0737	Daniel L. Weinreb <DLW at MIT-AI> 	Multiple Values
Date: Saturday, 16 January 1982, 10:22-EST
From: Daniel L. Weinreb <DLW at MIT-AI>
Subject: Multiple Values
To: Scott.Fahlman at CMU-10A, common-lisp at su-ai

What Moon says is true: I am writing a compiler, and parsing the
&-mumbles is quite easy compared to generating the code that implements
taking the returned values off of the stack and putting them where they
go while managing to run the default-forms and so on.  I could live
without the &-mumble forms of the receivers, although they seem like
they may be a good idea, and we are willing to implement them if they
appear in the Common Lisp definition.  I would not say that it is
generally an easy feature to implement.

It should be kept in mind that multiple-value-call certainly does not
provide the functionality of the &-mumble forms.  Only rarely do you
want to take all of the values produced by a function and pass them all
as successive arguments to a function.  Often they are some values
computed by the same piece of code, and you want to do completely
different things with each of them.

The goal of the &-mumble forms was to provide the same kind of
error-checking that we have with function calling.  Interlisp has no
such error-checking on function calls, which seems like a terrible thing
to me; the argument says that the same holds true of returned values.
I'm not convinced by that argument, but it has some merit.

∂16-Jan-82  1415	Richard M. Stallman <RMS at MIT-AI> 	Multiple Values   
Date: 16 January 1982 17:11-EST
From: Richard M. Stallman <RMS at MIT-AI>
Subject: Multiple Values
To: Scott.Fahlman at CMU-10A
cc: common-lisp at SU-AI

I mostly agree with SEF.

Better than a separate function M-V-CALL would be a new option to the
function CALL that allows one or more of several arg-forms to be
treated a la M-V-CALL.  Then it is possible to have more than one arg
form, all of whose values become separate args, intermixed with lists
of evaluated args, and ordinary args; but it is not really any harder
to implement than M-V-CALL alone.

[Background note: the Lisp machine function CALL takes alternating
options and arg-forms.  Each option says how to pass the following
arg-form.  It is either a symbol or a list of symbols.  Symbols now
allowed are SPREAD and OPTIONAL.  SPREAD means pass the elements of
the value as args.  OPTIONAL means do not get an error if the function
being called doesn't want the args.  This proposal is to add VALUES as
an alternative to SPREAD, meaning pass all values of the arg form as
args.]

If the &-keyword multiple value forms are not going to be implemented
on the current Lisp machine, that is an additional reason to keep them
out of Common Lisp, given that they are not vitally necessary for
anything.

∂16-Jan-82  2033	Scott.Fahlman at CMU-10A 	Keyword sequence fns    
Date: 16 January 1982 2333-EST (Saturday)
From: Scott.Fahlman at CMU-10A
To: common-lisp at su-ai
Subject:  Keyword sequence fns
Message-Id: <16Jan82 233312 SF50@CMU-10A>


My proposal for keyword-style sequence functions can be found on CMUA as

TEMP:NEWSEQ.PRE[C380SF50]

or as

TEMP:NEWSEQ.DOC[C380SF50]

Fire away.
-- Scott

∂17-Jan-82  1756	Guy.Steele at CMU-10A 	Sequence functions    
Date: 17 January 1982 2056-EST (Sunday)
From: Guy.Steele at CMU-10A
To: common-lisp at SU-AI
Subject:  Sequence functions
Message-Id: <17Jan82 205656 GS70@CMU-10A>

Here is an idea I would like to bounce off people.

The optional arguments given to the sequence functions are of two general
kinds: (1) specify subranges of the sequences to operate on; (2) specify
comparison predicates.  These choices tend to be completely orthogonal
in that it would appear equally likely to want to specify (1) without (2)
as to want to specify (2) without (1).  Therefore it is probably not
acceptable to choose a fixed ortder for them as simple optional arguments.

It is this problem that led me to propose the "functional-style" sequence
functions.  The minor claimed advantage was that the generated functions
might be useful as arguments to other functionals, particularly MAP.  The
primary motivation, however, was that this would syntactically allow
two distinct places for optional arguments, as:
   ((FREMOVE ...predicate optionals...) sequence ...subrange optionals...)

Here I propose to solve this problem in a different way, which is simply
to remove the subrange optionals entirely.  If you want to operate on a
subsequence, you have to use SUBSEQ to specify the subrange.  (Of course,
this won't work for the REPLACE function, which is in-place destructive.)
Given this, consistently reorganize the argument list so that the sequence
comes first.  This would give:
	(MEMBER SEQ #'EQL X)
	(MEMBER SEQ #'NUMBERP)
and so on.

Disadvantages:
(1) Unfamiliar argument order.
(2) Using SUBSEQ admittedlt is not as efficient as the subrange arguments
("but good a compiler could...").
(3) This doesn't allow you to elide EQL or EQUAL or whatever the chosen
default is.

Any takers?
--Guy




∂17-Jan-82  2207	Earl A. Killian <EAK at MIT-MC> 	Sequence functions    
Date: 17 January 1982 23:01-EST
From: Earl A. Killian <EAK at MIT-MC>
Subject:  Sequence functions
To: Guy.Steele at CMU-10A
cc: common-lisp at SU-AI

Using subseq instead of additional arguments is of course what
other languages do, and it is quite tasteful in those languages
because the creating a subsequence doesn't cons.  In Lisp it
does, which makes a lot of difference.  Unless you're willing to
GUARENTEE that the consing will be avoided, I don't think the
proposal is acceptable.  Consider a TECO style buffer management
that wanted to use string-replace to copy stuff around; it'd be
terrible if it consed the stuff it wanted to move!

∂18-Jan-82  0235	Richard M. Stallman <RMS at MIT-AI> 	subseq and consing
Date: 18 January 1982 05:25-EST
From: Richard M. Stallman <RMS at MIT-AI>
Subject: subseq and consing
To: common-lisp at SU-AI

Even if SUBSEQ itself conses,
if you offer compiler optimizations which take expressions
where sequence functions are applied to calls to subseq
and turn them into calls to other internal functions which
take extra args and avoid consing, this is good enough
in efficiency and provides the same simplicity in user interface.

While on the subject, how about eliminating all the functions
to set this or that from the language description
(except a few for Maclisp compatibility) and making SETF
the only way to set anything?
The only use for the setting-functions themselves, as opposed
to SETF, is to pass to a functional--they are more efficient perhaps
than a user-written function that just uses SETF.  However, such
user-written functions that only use SETF can be made to expand
into the internal functions which exist to do the dirty work.
This change would greatly simplify the language.

∂18-Jan-82  0822	Don Morrison <Morrison at UTAH-20> 	Re: subseq and consing  
Date: 18 Jan 1982 0918-MST
From: Don Morrison <Morrison at UTAH-20>
Subject: Re: subseq and consing
To: RMS at MIT-AI
cc: common-lisp at SU-AI
In-Reply-To: Your message of 18-Jan-82 0325-MST

And, after you've eliminated all the setting functions/forms, including
SETQ, change the name from SETF to SETQ.
-------

∂02-Jan-82  0908	Griss at UTAH-20 (Martin.Griss) 	Com L  
Date:  2 Jan 1982 1005-MST
From: Griss at UTAH-20 (Martin.Griss)
Subject: Com L
To: guy.steele at CMU-10A, rpg at SU-AI
cc: griss at UTAH-20

I have retrieved the revisions and decisions, will look them over.
I will try to set up arrangements to be at POPL Mondat-Wednesday,
depends on flights,

What is Common LISP schedule, next meeting, etc? Will we be invited to
attend, or is this one of topics for us to dicuss, etc. at POPL.
What in fact are we to dicuss, and what should I be thinking about.
As I explained, I hope to finish this round of PSL implementation
on DEC-20, VAX and maybe even first version on 68000 by then.
We then will fill in some missing features, and start bringup up REDUCE,
meta-compiler, BIGfloats, and PictureRLISP graphics. At that point I
have accomplished a significant amount of my NSF goals this year.

Next step is to signficantly improve PSL, SYSLISP, merge with Mode Analysis
phase for improved LISP<->SYSLISP comunications and efficiency.

At the same time, we will be looking over various LISP systems to see what sort of good
features can be adapted, and what sort of compatibility packages (eg, UCI-LISP
package, FranzLISP package, etc).

Its certainly in this pahse that I could easily attempt to modify PSL to
provide a ComonLISP kernel, assuming that we have not already adapted much of the
code.
M
-------

∂14-Jan-82  0732	Griss at UTAH-20 (Martin.Griss) 	Common LISP 
Date: 14 Jan 1982 0829-MST
From: Griss at UTAH-20 (Martin.Griss)
Subject: Common LISP
To: guy.steele at CMU-10A, rpg at SU-AI
cc: griss at UTAH-20

I just received amessage from Hedrick, regarding his project of doing an
extended Addressing common LISP on the DEC-20; it also refers to 
CMU doing the VAX version. I thought one of the possibilities we
were to discuss was whether we might become involved in doing the
VAX version? Is this true - ie what do you see as the possible routes
of joint work.?
Martin
-------

∂14-Jan-82  2032	Jonathan A. Rees <JAR at MIT-MC>   
Date: 14 January 1982 23:32-EST
From: Jonathan A. Rees <JAR at MIT-MC>
To: GLS at MIT-MC
cc: BROOKS at MIT-MC, RPG at MIT-MC

We've integrated your changes to the packing phase into our
code... we'll see pretty soon whether the new preferencing stuff works.
I've written a fancy new closure analysis phase which you might be
interested in snarfing at some point.  Much smarter than RABBIT about
SETQ'ed closed-over variables.
Using NODE-DISPATCH now.  Win.
I now have an ALIASP slot in the NODE structure, and the ALIAS-IF-SAFE
analysis has been moved into TARGETIZE-CALL-PRIMOP.  I'm debugging
that now.  This means the DEPENDENTS slot goes away.  I'm trying to
get e.g. (RPLACA X (FOO)) where X must be in a register (because
it's an RPLACA) and (FOO) is a call to an unknown function (and thus
clobbers all regs) to work fairly efficiently in all cases.
In fact I've rewritten a lot of TARGETIZE...

Does the <S1LISP.COMPILER> directory still exist?  I can't seem to read
it from FTP.  Has anyone done more work on S1COMP?

The T project, of course, is behind schedule.  As I told you before,
a toy interpreter runs on the Vax, but so far nothing besides
a read-factorial-print loop runs on the 68000.  But soon, I hope,...

∂15-Jan-82  0109	RPG   	Rutgers lisp development project 
 ∂14-Jan-82  1625	HEDRICK at RUTGERS (Mngr DEC-20's/Dir LCSR Comp Facility) 	Rutgers lisp development project    
Mail-from: ARPANET site RUTGERS rcvd at 13-Jan-82 2146-PST
Date: 14 Jan 1982 0044-EST
From: HEDRICK at RUTGERS (Mngr DEC-20's/Dir LCSR Comp Facility)
Subject: Rutgers lisp development project
To: bboard at RUTGERS, griss at UTAH-20, admin.mrc at SU-SCORE, jsol at RUTGERS
Remailed-date: 14 Jan 1982 1622-PST
Remailed-from: Mark Crispin
Remailed-to: Feigenbaum at SUMEX-AIM, REG at SU-AI

It now appears that we are going to do an implementation of Common Lisp
for the DEC-20.  This project is being funded by DEC.

		Why are we doing this project at all?

This project is being done because a number of our researchers are going
to want to be able to move their programs to other systems than the
DEC)20.  We are proposing to get personal machines over The next few
years.  Sri has already run into problem in trying to give AIMDS to
someone thatonly has a VAX.  Thus we think our users are going to Want
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≥H→P⊂Xz⊂4yH77zεB:0ur[⊂9ry~wzyv≡P14P≠wyz⊂≤tz2yK⊂⊂*4~yP4yH77z⊂→w:4y→v<P#_ty⊗⊂_:z⊂*~2y2P~yFE(≤7q0q≠<P77]44w3H;rP1Xw⊂27H0q7z]⊂:40]⊂30q]⊂0z this stage. So we are left	αwith Interlipπ`AC9HA[KQBP⊗7∞≠3'Oαq↓α¬εsW7/⊃β/→εK7C3.k↔;S␈∪Eβ≠⊗{5βSF(4*7∞≠3'Oαβ∪π↔Lceβ#∂3∃β∨⎇#S↔9¬#?∨↔&C↔Iβ&yβ∪↔4¬⊗v*⊂λ={;;md→~8-L8⎇λ∞M_9β!{{8M≥Y<h∞M→(_L↑⎇λ⊃L\=≥0→→yP7cλ:42d\⊂;0y~wzyP→4pv2Xz9V⊂≥t4v"H9z4v≠⊂12t[3FE9→pywg_q62P~w⊂9t↑2W⊂⊂⊂P6pw≥pv⊂$\P12d[3P89≠r:qrY⊂37iλ4z⊗⊂_w2⊂7[1rFE→4w4iZ2r⊂;Zv6⊂9→vptwλ92py[w0q6≡P9z0X62W⊂λ∀!pwλ<wrP_2v4r]2P4j∂FE"7Xzvrg≥0z4w[⊂12s≠y2P1[r4w3HTP⊂*~4yP2~pv2q]⊂4yP≠7{P1Xv62rλ!wvv[w⊂&4\x↔εE∃42P0Y;0w:_qryP≠s⊂!w[vww⊂∪4yx⊂≠{2y⊂∩w:2y≠4yx⊂_y2]εBεE⊂⊂P7zz≤tr2P≠s⊂!!∪⊂0w2λ,2y7↑⊗⊂:4→P&4y\⊂22{→v7x6Yw:⊂2Y37y:≤P77{H3wtw→P7wεB∧pv6λ9rrfH:7P1→P4w⊂≥42P&Xqv4y\⊂30vZv<V⊂_w2⊂7≠{P0y→P12t[3FE∧\2r4y→qz2rλ:7{p\29P![vvwwλ&4yx⊂⊂*4→yrP2Y37y:≤P4w1[:r2PβE∧afUV⊂:4→P&4y\⊂&pqZ4w2P_wvx0[4ryP
)|vq≠v4qyK⊂&&dJV⊂&)∪⊂0w2λ&dj↔βEεE⊂λ⊗P$w≥2y64\x⊂40\P9wvYP32p]:y2yK⊂80y≥4qzv_y6<P≥42P9\0st2]:4P9]0quVβE∧z4_z⊂6pZrP4zλ4vx7\ytq6→P:7P~vx62[rw:⊂_yP2s→4qtr[:6<P_w2⊂1[2pw6≡FE∧p\P!wv[ww⊂&~yx↔⊂λ∀'7z→P:40]⊂4z⊂~yP87\ytq6→P:7P→rz⊂0\P3wwYεE∧rY34rw_|P7z]⊂7s⊂_wvx4[2r⊂1[r2P4Y⊂<wzH27P7≠z⊂:yYP:42\rP32Xz:y2\VεE∧Xw2⊂4Y⊂<wzH:yrP≤x2qtXv⊂:2Xt74x]ryP;Z2w⊂1[vx4v~w3W⊂λ$7{r]2y⊂:~0zεEαr7ry[∪z⊂4→v8⊂:~2P4w≥2y89→z2y⊗λ0w2⊂~yP77]⊂0yP_v2pw∀BEεB⊂⊂⊗P⊂2qpz\rP7sλ:42iYP1wv\62|4]4ryP~w⊂$w≥2y64\x⊗⊂$[x62vYw:0z~ww⊂4\P0FEαv0y3YP0w2λ1wvx≠2|⊂5≠q↔⊂⊂⊂i( P→:w22Y⊂0P3_ty6<H60y3YP2s3≠y:⊂ ]εE∧dTdV⊂0[2⊂2{→w⊂:4_z⊂9rYvyP:≠P12P≠py3t[0v↔⊂λ*44yH1wvvYw:⊂$\P10yYrεE∧[w⊂:4→P92x≠y:⊂'[⊂:42H$idP≤97u2Xz⊂89≠r:qrY⊂1<P∪0y1<H&pyt[:2y⊗βE↑6~yx∨4[:2y6~yx⊗{_|⊗y8≥↔:<:⊂⊂'z\⊂7w6≡P47h→P;wz[2⊂12H:7P:_urFEαz42P∩idP$[x62vYw:0z~ww⊂0[2⊂0z≥2vx:λ:7P*≤0w9x≠y:⊂4]⊂:7P≥42P→↔εE∧RP0vP_ww1r\52r⊂≥40z≥42P9→yzv*λ7s⊂:~4yP;[zv2⊂_2P2`8tremely slow.
	I am alco concerneD that we might turn out @9←hAi<AQCm∀AiQJ4∀∪eKM←keG∃bA]K
KggCIrAi↑↓I↑ASPABAO=←HAU=D\~∀4∀@@Z↓)QKe∀AgKK5fAi↑↓EJAB↓OK]KICXAM∃KYS]≤AiQCPAπ←[5←\A→%g`Ao%YPAQ¬mJAB4∀∪]k5EKdA=LACiQeCGi%mJAM∃Cike∃fACf↓BAYC9OkCO∀\@@Q9←iSG∀AiQCPA∩AC4~∀∪]=hAiC1WS]N↓CE←kPAkgKHAMCG%YSiS∃bPAo!SGPA]SYXA9↑AI←UEhAi¬WJAg=[J~∀%iS[J↓EKM←IJAiQ∃rAeK¬GPAi!JAYKYKXA←_A∪]i∃eQSg@\R@A∃mK\AAK←aY∀~∀∪o%iQS\↓βeaB↓CeJAMiCei%]NAi<AiCY,ACE←UhASh↓CfAi!JAYC9OkCO∀A←LAQQJ~∀%MkikIJ\@A$ACZA9←hAa∃`O?v33E∧≠?;[Ls∂↔⊃π##πQεKQβ'~βO↔KN{WO3Hh('O/β↔K'␈⊃βS=∧K;S↔⊗c'OAbβWQεKQβ'~βπMβ>{?⊃↓F∨π'raβπQπ##∃βd;∨W∞;∀4(Nc↔[↔bI1βπv!βS#*β∨↔;/∪π1αn∂3'∨↓β∂?nkW;''IβO↔,kMβSzβ#π[*β¬β;.k↔HhP'?→εK∪↔π~βS#π"βπK∃y to
	show up in Interlisp with the current support available for it.

There are two serious disadvantages of Common Lisp:

  - It does not exist yet.  As of this week, there now seem to be
	sufficient resources committed to it that we can be sure it will
	be implemented.  The following projects are now committed, at a
	level sufficient for success:  VAX (CMU), DEC-20 (Rutgers), PERQ
	and other related machines (CMU), Lisp Machine (Symbolics), S-1
	(LRL).  I believe this is sufficient to give the language a
	"critical mass".

  - It does not have user facilities defined for it.  CMU is heavily
	committed to the Spice (PERQ) implementation, and will produce
	the appropriate tools.  They appear to be funded sufficiently
	that this will happen.

		 Why is DEC funding it, and what will be
		 	our relationship with them?

LCG (the group within DEC that is responsible for the DEC-20) is
interested in increasing the software that will support the full 30-bit
address space possible in the DEC-20 architecture.  (Our current
processor will only use 23 bits of this, but this is still much better
than what was supported by the old software, which is 18 bits.)  They
are proceeding at a reasonable rate with the software that is supported
by DEC&  Hkwever they recognize that many important languages were
Developed outside of DAC, and that it will not be practical For them
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so as to make embedded lambdas see the lexical binding environment in
which they are defined.  Right now, for me at least, it is unclear
whether this can be done for all Common Lisp implementations with low
enough cost that we can make it a required feature.  In the meantime, I
think it is a real mistake to include in the language any constructs
that require a successful solution to this problem if they are to be
implemented decently.

So my vote (with the maximum number of exclamation points) continues to
be that Common Lisp should include only the Lisp Machine style forms,
plus M-V-CALL of multiple arguments.  Are the other forms really so
important to the rest of you?

All in all, I think that the amount of convergence made in the November
meeting was really remarkable, and that we are surprisingly close to
winning big on this effort.

-- Scott

∂15-Jan-82  0913	George J. Carrette <GJC at MIT-MC> 	multiple values.   
Date: 15 January 1982 12:14-EST
From: George J. Carrette <GJC at MIT-MC>
Subject: multiple values.
To: Scott.Fahlman at CMU-10A
cc: Common-lisp at SU-AI

[1] I think your last note has some incorrect assumptions about how
    the procedure call mechanism will work on future Lisp machines.
    Not that the assumption isn't reasonable, but as I recall the procedure
    ARGUMENT mechanism and the mechanism for passing the back
    the FIRST VALUE was designed to be inconsistent with the mechanism
    for passing the rest of the values. This puts a whole different
    perspective on the language semantics.
[2] At least one implementation, NIL, guessed that there would be
    demand in the future for various lambda extensions, so a
    sufficiently general lambda-grovelling mechanism was painlessly
    introduce from the begining.

∂15-Jan-82  2352	David A. Moon <Moon at MIT-MC> 	Multiple Values   
Date: Saturday, 16 January 1982, 02:36-EST
From: David A. Moon <Moon at MIT-MC>
Subject: Multiple Values
To: Scott.Fahlman at CMU-10A
Cc: common-lisp at su-ai

We are planning for implementation of the new multiple-value receiving
forms with &optional and &rest, on the L machine, but are unlikely to
be able to implement them on the present Lisp machine without a significant
amount of work.  I would just as soon see them flushed, but am willing
to implement them if the concensus is to keep them.

If by lambda-grovelling you mean (as GJC seems to think you mean) a
subroutine in the compiler that parses out the &optionals, that is about
0.5% of the work involved.  If by lambda-grovelling you mean the generated
code in a compiled function that takes some values and defaults the
unsupplied optionals, indeed that is where the hair comes in, since in
most implementations it can't be -quite- the same as the normal function-entry
case of what might seem to be the same thing.

∂16-Jan-82  0631	Scott.Fahlman at CMU-10A 	Re: Multiple Values
Date: 16 January 1982 0930-EST (Saturday)
From: Scott.Fahlman at CMU-10A
To: David A. Moon <Moon at MIT-MC> 
Subject:  Re: Multiple Values
CC: common-lisp at su-ai
In-Reply-To:  David A. Moon's message of 16 Jan 82 02:36-EST
Message-Id: <16Jan82 093009 SF50@CMU-10A>


As Moon surmises, my concern for "Lambda-grovelling" was indeed about
needing a second, slightly different version of the whole binding and
defaulting and rest-ifying machinery, not about the actual parsing of
the Lambda-list syntax which, as GJC points out, can be mostly put into
a universal function of its own.
-- Scott

∂16-Jan-82  0737	Daniel L. Weinreb <DLW at MIT-AI> 	Multiple Values
Date: Saturday, 16 January 1982, 10:22-EST
From: Daniel L. Weinreb <DLW at MIT-AI>
Subject: Multiple Values
To: Scott.Fahlman at CMU-10A, common-lisp at su-ai

What Moon says is true: I am writing a compiler, and parsing the
&-mumbles is quite easy compared to generating the code that implements
taking the returned values off of the stack and putting them where they
go while managing to run the default-forms and so on.  I could live
without the &-mumble forms of the receivers, although they seem like
they may be a good idea, and we are willing to implement them if they
appear in the Common Lisp definition.  I would not say that it is
generally an easy feature to implement.

It should be kept in mind that multiple-value-call certainly does not
provide the functionality of the &-mumble forms.  Only rarely do you
want to take all of the values produced by a function and pass them all
as successive arguments to a function.  Often they are some values
computed by the same piece of code, and you want to do completely
different things with each of them.

The goal of the &-mumble forms was to provide the same kind of
error-checking that we have with function calling.  Interlisp has no
such error-checking on function calls, which seems like a terrible thing
to me; the argument says that the same holds true of returned values.
I'm not convinced by that argument, but it has some merit.

∂16-Jan-82  1252	Griss at UTAH-20 (Martin.Griss) 	Kernel for Commaon LISP    
Date: 16 Jan 1982 1347-MST
From: Griss at UTAH-20 (Martin.Griss)
Subject: Kernel for Commaon LISP
To: guy.steel at CMU-10A, rpg at SU-AI
cc: griss at UTAH-20

What was actually decided about a "small" common kernel, rest
in LISP. Were core functions identified? This first place that
my work and expertise will strongly overlap; the smaller the
kernel, and the more jazzy-features that can be imnpleemnted
in terms of it, the better. 

Have you sent out a revised Ballot, or are there pending questions that
the "world-at-large" should respond to (as apposed to the ongoing
group that has been making decisions). The last bit about the
lambda stuff for multiples is pretty obscure, seems to depend on
a model that was discussed, but not documented (as far as I can see).

In general, where are the proposed to solutions to the hard implementation
issues being recorded.
Martin
-------

∂16-Jan-82  1415	Richard M. Stallman <RMS at MIT-AI> 	Multiple Values   
Date: 16 January 1982 17:11-EST
From: Richard M. Stallman <RMS at MIT-AI>
Subject: Multiple Values
To: Scott.Fahlman at CMU-10A
cc: common-lisp at SU-AI

I mostly agree with SEF.

Better than a separate function M-V-CALL would be a new option to the
function CALL that allows one or more of several arg-forms to be
treated a la M-V-CALL.  Then it is possible to have more than one arg
form, all of whose values become separate args, intermixed with lists
of evaluated args, and ordinary args; but it is not really any harder
to implement than M-V-CALL alone.

[Background note: the Lisp machine function CALL takes alternating
options and arg-forms.  Each option says how to pass the following
arg-form.  It is either a symbol or a list of symbols.  Symbols now
allowed are SPREAD and OPTIONAL.  SPREAD means pass the elements of
the value as args.  OPTIONAL means do not get an error if the function
being called doesn't want the args.  This proposal is to add VALUES as
an alternative to SPREAD, meaning pass all values of the arg form as
args.]

If the &-keyword multiple value forms are not going to be implemented
on the current Lisp machine, that is an additional reason to keep them
out of Common Lisp, given that they are not vitally necessary for
anything.

∂16-Jan-82  2033	Scott.Fahlman at CMU-10A 	Keyword sequence fns    
Date: 16 January 1982 2333-EST (Saturday)
From: Scott.Fahlman at CMU-10A
To: common-lisp at su-ai
Subject:  Keyword sequence fns
Message-Id: <16Jan82 233312 SF50@CMU-10A>


My proposal for keyword-style sequence functions can be found on CMUA as

TEMP:NEWSEQ.PRE[C380SF50]

or as

TEMP:NEWSEQ.DOC[C380SF50]

Fire away.
-- Scott

∂17-Jan-82  0618	Griss at UTAH-20 (Martin.Griss) 	Agenda 
Date: 17 Jan 1982 0714-MST
From: Griss at UTAH-20 (Martin.Griss)
Subject: Agenda
To: guy.Steele at CMU-10A, rpg at SU-AI
cc: griss at UTAH-20

Still havent any indication from you guys as to what we should be dicussing;
ie what should I be thinking about as our possible mode of intercation with
the common Lispers?
M
-------

I had been deferring to GLS on this by silence, but let me tell you my thoughts
on the current situation.

First, the DEC/Rutgers things took me somewhat by surprise. I know that Hedrick
thinks very highly of the Standard Lisp stuff, and I wouldn't mind seeing
a joint effort from the Common Lisp core people, Dec/Rutgers, and Utah.

From the Utah connection I would like to see a clean looking virtual machine,
a set of Lisp code to implement the fluff from Common Lisp, and a reasonable
portable type of compiler.

By `connection' I mean Utah providing the virtual machine for a few specific
computers, Common Lisp core people providing most of the Lisp code, and
maybe S-1 and Utah providing the compiler.

Even with Dec/Rutgers doing the Vax/20 versions, Utah provides us with
the expertise to do many other important, but bizarre machines, such as
68k based machines, IBM equipment, and Burroughs, to name a few. Perhaps
Rutgers/DEC wouldn't mind working with us all on this.

That is what I would to discuss for political topics.

For technical topics, the virtual machine specification and the compiler
technology.

			-rpg-
∂17-Jan-82  1751	Feigenbaum at SUMEX-AIM 	more on Interlisp-VAX    
Date: 17 Jan 1982 1744-PST
From: Feigenbaum at SUMEX-AIM
Subject: more on Interlisp-VAX
To:   rindfleisch at SUMEX-AIM, barstow at SUMEX-AIM, bonnet at SUMEX-AIM,
      hart at SRI-KL, csd.hbrown at SU-SCORE
cc:   csd.genesereth at SU-SCORE, buchanan at SUMEX-AIM, lenat at SUMEX-AIM,
      friedland at SUMEX-AIM, pople at SUMEX-AIM, gabriel at SU-AI

Mail-from: ARPANET host USC-ISIB rcvd at 17-Jan-82 1647-PST
Date: 17 Jan 1982 1649-PST
From: Dave Dyer       <DDYER at USC-ISIB>
Subject: Interlisp-VAX report
To: feigenbaum at SUMEX-AIM, lynch at USC-ISIB, balzer at USC-ISIB,
    bengelmore at SRI-KL, nilsson at SRI-AI
cc: rbates at USC-ISIB, saunders at USC-ISIB, voreck at USC-ISIB, mcgreal at USC-ISIB,
    ignatowski at USC-ISIB, hedrick at RUTGERS, admin.mrc at SU-SCORE,
    jsol at RUTGERS, griss at UTAH-20, bboard at RUTGERS, reg at SU-AI

	Addendum to Interlisp-VAX: A report

		Jan 16, 1982


  Since Larry Masinter's "Interlisp-VAX: A Report" is being
used in the battle of LISPs, it is important that it be as
accurate as possible.  This note represents the viewpoint of
the implementors of Interlisp-VAX, as of January 1982.

  The review or the project, and the discussions with other
LISP implementors, that provided the basis for "Interlisp-VAX:
A report", were done in June 1981.  We were given the opportunity
to review and respond to a draft of the report, and had few
objections that were refutable at the time of its writing.

  We now have the advantage of an additional 6 month's development
effort, and can present as facts what would have been merely
counter arguments at the time.


  We believed at the time, and still believe now, that Masinter's
report is largely A fair and accurate presentation of Interlisp-VAX,
afdof the long term efForts necesary to support it.  Hh∂oKYKdX~)BAMK\AmKedAS[a=eiC]PAa←S9ifAQ∀A[CI∀AQCmα)βCK␈3↔9β&yβ∃εK;π∂∨+KπS*p4(∀Ph*εZJ2ε
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iβ≡{77?rk3'OαβπQα≥)6ε$hP4*W≡K;≥β∨+O↔
β';O&+π⊃β}1βπ∪&KS'?v1βπ⊗;W7↔w#Mβ'~β?→β≡{WKO*β←#π h+?SF+Iβ3∞s∨Wπ>+Mβ∪zaβπ;"β'QβO→βGWO#∃βS∂≠S↔≠.aβ'9π##?O*β3π;?+π∨↔_h+↔≡WO∃π##∃β∨∪↔πSNs≥β¬ubsequence doesn't cons.  In Lisp it
does, which makes a lot of difference.  Unless you're willing to
GUARENTEE that the consing will be avoided, I don't think the
proposal is acceptable.  Consider a TECO style buffer management
that wanted to use string-replace to copy stuff around; it'd be
terrible if it consed the stuff it wanted to move!

∂18-Jan-82  0235	Richard M. Stallman <RMS at MIT-AI> 	subseq and consing
Date: 18 January 1982 05:25-EST
From: Richard M. Stallman <RMS at MIT-AI>
Subject: subseq and consing
To: common-lisp at SU-AI

Even if SUBSEQ itself conses,
if you offer compiler optimizations which take expressions
where sequence functions are applied to calls to subseq
and turn them into calls to other internal functions which
take extra args and avoid consing, this is good enough
in efficiency and provides the same simplicity in user interface.

While on the subject, how about eliminating all the functions
to set this or that from the language description
(except a few for Maclisp compatibility) and making SETF
the only way to set anything?
The only use for the setting-functions themselves, as opposed
to SETF, is to pass to a functional--they are more efficient perhaps
than a user-written function that just uses SETF.  However, such
user-written functions that only use SETF can be made to expand
into the internal functions which exist to do the dirty work.
This change would Greatly simplify the language.

18-Jan-82  0822↓Don MoRpisoN <MorpisoN at UTAH-20> 	Re: subseq and ConsiNg  
Date: 18 Jan 1982 0918%MST
From: Don Morrison <Morrison atUTAH-20>
SubjEct: Re: subseq and consiNg
To: RMS at MIT%AI
cc: common-lisp at SU-AI
IN-Reply-To: Your message od 18-Jan-82 0325-MST

And, @¬MiKd↓s←jOYJAKY%[S]CQKHAC1XAiQ∀AgKiQS]NA→k]Gi%←]f←→←e[f0AS]G1kIS]≤~∃'Q"XAG!C]OJ↓iQJA9C[JA→e←ZAM)AQ↑A'Q"\~∀4ZZZZ4Z~∀~(_≡bp5∃C\Z`d@@bX`d∪	¬]SKX↓_\A/∃S]eKλ@y	→\AChA5∪([β$|@∪gUEgKb↓C]HA
←]gS9N@@~)	CiJhA≠←]⊃CrX@DpA∃C9kCerbrpd0@bpt@h['P~∃
e=ZtA	¬]SKX↓_\A/∃S]eKλ@y	→\AChA5∪([β$|~∃'UEUKGPtAgk	gKbA¬]HAG=]gS]≤~∃)↑hAG←[5←\[Y%g`ACPA'*[¬∩~∀~)∩ACOIKJAi!ChA∂1&OfAAe←a←MCXASLA]SG∀XAiQ¬hASh↓SfA←9YrAC
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⊗v?5`hPα""%↑\→k!QA"@∂19-Jan-82  2113	Griss at UTAH-20 (Martin.Griss) 	Re: Suggestion        
Date: 19 Jan 1982 1832-MST
From: Griss at UTAH-20 (Martin.Griss)
Subject: Re: Suggestion    
To: RPG at SU-AI, common-lisp at SU-AI
cc: Griss at UTAH-20
In-Reply-To: Your message of 19-Jan-82 1651-MST

I agree entirely. In terms of my 2 interests:
a) Implementing Common LISP kernel/compatibility in/for PSL
b) Getting our and other LISP tools working for Common LISP

I would very much like to see a clear effort NOW to isolate some of the
kernel features, and major implementation issues (data-types, user
control over storage manager, etc) so that some of us can implement
a kernel, and others can design extensions.
-------

∂20-Jan-82  1604	David A. Moon <MOON5 at MIT-AI> 	Keyword style sequence functions
Date: 20 January 1982 16:34-EST
From: David A. Moon <MOON5 at MIT-AI>
Subject: Keyword style sequence functions
To: common-lisp at SU-AI

Comments on Fahlman's Proposal for Keyword Style Sequence Functions for
Common Lisp of 16 January 1982

I think this is a good proposal and a step in the right direction.  There
are some problems with it, and also a couple issues that come to mind while
reading it.  I will first make some minor comments to get flamed up, and
then say what I really want to say.


- Negative comments first:

ELT and SETELT should be provided in type-specific versions.

My intuition suggests that MAP would be more readable with the result data
type before the function instead of after.  I don't really feel strongly
about this, but it's a suggestion.

I don't like the idea of flushing CONCAT (catenate) and making TO-LIST
allow multiple arguments, for some reason.

There is a problem with the :compare and :compare-not keywords.  For some
functions (the ones that take two sequences as arguments), the predicate is
really and truly an equality test.  It might be clearer to call it :equal.
For these functions I think it makes little sense to have a :compare-not.
Note that these are the same functions for which :if/:if-not are meaningless.
For other functions, such as POSITION, the predicate may not be a symmetric
equality predicate; you might be trying to find the first number in a list
greater than 50, or the number of astronauts whose grandmothers are not
ethnic Russians.  Here it makes sense to have a :compare-not.  It may actually
make sense to have a :compare keyword for these functions and a :equal
keyword for the others.  I'm not ecstatic about the name compare for this,
but I haven't thought of anything better.  This is only a minor esthetic
issue; I wouldn't really mind leaving things the way they are in Fahlman's
proposal.

Re :start and :end.  A nil value for either of these keywords should be
the same as not supplying it (i.e. the appropriate boundary of the sequence.)
This makes a lot of things simpler.  In :from-end mode, is the :start where
you start processing the sequence op the left-hand endof the subsequEnce?
If the Liqp machine, it is the latter, but either way would be acceptable.
~∃QQJA←AiS←]¬X@EG=k]hD↓CeOk5K]hAQ↑A%5∨-
A¬]HAMISKMILAgQ←UYHAE∀ABAW∃so←e⊂~∃Ce≥k[K]P\@A)!SfASLA[←e∀Ak]S→←eZX↓I←Kg8OhAQUehAC9siQS9NXAC9HASf↓ieSm%CYYr4∃[KG!C]SG¬YYbAQeC]g1CiCE1JAMe=ZAiQ∀A←YH↓oCr\4∀∩∃)!JAgKPAMk]
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-really- a Ba` idea to put ieywords after an &rest Argument (aq in UNION).~∃$Ao←k1HAgk≥OCgh↓iQChαβS#∃ε+GWπbkCK↔&K∂πS*β∃βλ∧π⊗/≡Y↔⊗.DfO↔>Dε∂⊗}]V.wDλ	M}C"P-Mλ≥~T≤y5∧];XnM;{\g4_;≥↑[X=
≡Y;≡$
=λ⊂⊃[zv2_2P0wλ7x:4[w0v⊂≥44y2λ0y3z[rp∞t
except fop UNIOJ and INTERSECTION or Those funcTions could be Changed
to operate on only two sets like the others*  I thiNk EQUAL is likely¬
To be the right predicate fkr set membership only in rare ciRcumstances,
so that it Would not hurt to make the predicate a required argument and
have no default predicate.

The :eq, :eql, :nequal, etc. keywords are really a bad idea.  The reasons
are:  1) They are non-uniform, with some keYwords taking arguments and
some not.  See the tirade about this below.  2) They introduce an artificial
barrier between system-defined and user-defined predicates.  This is always
a bad idea, and here serves no useful purpose.  3) They introduce an
unesthetic interchangeability between foo and :foo, which can lead to
a significant amount of confusion.  If the keyword form of specifying the
predicate is too verbose, I would be much happier with making the predicate
be an optional argument, to be followed by keywords.  Personally I don't
think it is verbose enough to justify that.

There are still a lot of string functions in the Lisp machine not generalized
into sequence functions.  I Guess it is best to leave that issue for future
generations and get on with the initial specification of Common Lisp.


- Negative comments not really related to the issue at hand:

"(the :string foo)".  Data type names cannot have colons, i.e. cannot be
keywords.  The reason is that the data type system is user-extensible, at
least via defstruct and certainly via other mechanisms such as flavors in
individual implementations and in future Common extensions.  This means
that it is important to be able to use the package system to avoid name
clashes between data types ddifferent programs.  The standard
primitive data type names should be globals (or more exactly, should be
in the same package as the standard primitive functions that operate
on those data types.)

Lisp machine experience suggests that it is really not a good idea to have
some keywords take arguments and other keywords not take arguments.  It's a
bit difficult to explain why.  When you are just using these functions with
their keywords in a syntactic way, i.e. essentially as special forms, it
makes no difference except insofar as it makes the documentation more
confusing.  But when you start having programs processing the keywords,
i.e. using the sequence functions as functions rather than special forms,
all hell breaks loose if the syntax isn't uniform.  I think the slight
ugliness of an extra "t" sometimes is well worth it for the sake of
uniformity and simplicity.  On the Lisp machine, we've gone through an
evolution in the last couple of years in which keywords that don't take
arguments have been weeded out.

I don't think much of the scheme for having keywords be constants.  There
is nothing really bad about this except for the danger of confusing
novices, so I guess I could be talked into it, but I don't think getting
rid of the quote mark is a significant improvement (but perhaps it is in
some funny place on your keyboard, where you can't find it, rather than
lower case and to the right of the semicolon as is standard for
typewriters?)


- Minor positive comments

Making REPLACE take keywords is a good idea.

:start1/:end1/:start2/:end2 is a good idea.

The order of arguments to the compare/compare-not function needs to be
strictly defined (since it is not always a commutative function).  Presumably 
the right thing is to make its arguments come in the same order as the
arguments to the sequence function from which they derive.  Thus for SEARCH
the arguments would be an element of sequence1 followed by an element of
sequence2, while for POSITION the arguments would be the item followed
by an element of the sequence.

In addition to MEMQ, etc., would it be appropriate to have MEMQL, etc.,
which would use EQL as the comparison predicate?

MEMBER is a betper name than POSITION for the predicate that tests for
membership of an element in a sequence, when you don't care about its
position and really want simplY a predicate.  I am tempted to propose that
MEMBER be extended to sequences.  Of course, this would be a non-uniform
extension, since the true value would be T rather Than a tail of a list (in
other words, MEMBER would be a predicate on sequences but a semi-predicate
on lists.)  This might be anasty for novices, but it really seems worth
risking that.  Fortunately car, cdr, rplaca, and rplacd of T are errors in
any reasonable implementation, so that accidentallq thinking that the truth
value is a list is likely to be caught immediately.


- To get down to the point:

The problems remaining after this proposal are basically two.  One is that there
is still a ridiculous family of "assoc" functions, and the other is that the
three proposed solutions to the -if/-if-not problem (flushing it, having an
optional argument before a required argument, or passing nil as a placeholder)
are all completely unacceptable.

My solution to the first problem is somewhat radical: remove ASSOC and all
its relatives from the language entirely.  Instead, add a new keyword,
:KEY, to the sequence functions.  The argument to :KEY is the function
which is given an element of the sequence and returns its "key", the object
to be fed to the comparison predicate.  :KEY would be accepted by REMOVE,
POSITION, COUNT, MEMBER, and DELETE.  This is the same as the new optional
argument to SORT (and presumably MERGE), which replaced SORTCAR and
SORTSLOT; but I guess we don't want to make those take keywords.  It is
also necessary to add a new sequence function, FIND, which takes arguments
like POSITION but returns the element it finds.  With a :compare of EQ and
fo :key, FIND is (almost) trivial, but with other comparisons and/or other
keys, it becomes extremely useful.

The default value for :KEY would be #'ID or IBID or CR, whatever we call
the function that simply returns its argument [I don't like any of those
names much.]  Using #'CAR as the argument gives you ASSOC (from FIND),
MEMASSOC (from MEMBER), POSASSOC (from POSITION), and DELASSOC (from
DELETE).  Using #'CDR as the argument gives you the RASS- forms.  Of
course, usually you don't want to use either CAR or CDR as the key, but
some defstruct structure-element-accessor.

In the same way that it may be reasonable to keep MEMQ for historical
reasons and because it is used so often, it is probably good to keep
ASSQ and ASSOC.  But the other a-list searching functions are unnecessary.

My solution to the second problem is to put in separate functions for
the -if and -if-not case.  In fact this is a total of only 10 functions:

	remove-if	remove-if-not	position-if	position-if-not
	count-if	count-if-not	delete-if	delete-if-not
	find-if		find-if-not

MEMBER-IF and MEMBER-IF-NOT are identical to SOME and NOTEVERY if the above
suggestion about extending MEMBER to sequences is adopted, and if my memory
of SOME and NOTEVERY is correct (I don't have a Common Lisp manual here.)
If they are put in anyway, that still makes only 12 functions, which are
really only 6 entries in the manual since -if/-if-not pairs would be
documented together.

∂20-Jan-82  1631	Kim.fateman at Berkeley 	numerics and common-lisp 
Date: 20 Jan 1982 16:29:10-PST
From: Kim.fateman at Berkeley
To: common-lisp@su-ai
Subject: numerics and common-lisp

The following stuff was sent a while back to GLS, and seemed to
provoke no comment; although it probably raises more questions
than answers, here goes:

*** Issue 81: Complex numbers. Allow SQRT and LOG to produce results in
whatever form is necessary to deliver the mathematically defined result.

RJF:  This is problematical. The mathematically defined result is not
necessarily agreed upon.  Does Log(0) produce an error or a symbol?
(e.g. |log-of-zero| ?)  If a symbol, what happens when you try to
do arithmetic on it? Does sin(x) give up after some specified max x,
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←[[←8[YSg@AChAM*[β∩4∀~∃'=k]If↓O←←H0Ak]Y∃gfASPAike9fA←kPAi↑A	JAIS→MSGk1hAi↑↓MSOkIJA←kPAUkgP~∃oQ%GPAi!S]Of↓CeJAQQJAW∃e]KX↓C]HA]QSGP↓CeK\≥h\@A¬Yg↑X↓oQK\↓iQJA-Ke]K0ASf~)IKgS≥]KHX↓iQS]≥fAgQ=kYHA	JAgKPAk`AM↑AiQ¬hAKm∃\ASL↓g←[J↓QSOQ∃d[YKYKX~∃→k]Gi%←\ASLA≥∨(↓S\Ai!JAWKI]KXX↓ShASLAgiS1XAa←MgSEY∀AM←d↓g←[J4∃S[a1K[K]QCiS←9fAi↑↓oeSi∀ABAQ%OQKd5YKmK0AMk]
iS←\↓S\@E5CGQS9JAYC9OkCO∀D~∃S_AiQKdAoC]PAi↑X↓oSiQ=khAY=gS]N↓oQK\↓iQKr↓YP∨π"β'9β>{Mβ∞s⊃β∨}∪Mβ?0h*3'∨↓7∂?&+⊃β#N;#↔Inc↔[↔bβOSW6184(hP∂20-Jan-82  2234	Kim.fateman at Berkeley 	adding to kernel    
Date: 20 Jan 1982 22:04:29-PST
From: Kim.fateman at Berkeley
To: dlw@MIT-AI
Subject: adding to kernel
Cc: common-lisp@su-ai

One of the features of Franz which we addressed early on in the
design for the VAX was how we would link to system calls in UNIX, and
provide calling sequences and apPropriate data structures for use
by other languages (C, Fortran, Pascal).  An argument could be made
that linkages of this nature could be done by message passifg, if
necessary; an argument could Be made that  CL will be so universal
that it would not be necessary to make such linkages at all.  I
have not foUnd these arguments convincing in the past, though in
The perspective of a single CL virtual machine running on many machineS,
they might seem better. 

I am unclear as to how many implementations of CL are anticipated, also:
fkr what machines; 
who will be doing them;
who will be paying for the work;
how much it will cost to get a copy (if CL is done "for profit");
how will maintenance and standardization happen (e.g. under ANSI?);

If these questions have been answered previously, please forgive my
ignorance/impertinence.


∂18-Jan-82  1537	Daniel L. Weinreb <DLW at MIT-AI> 	subseq and consing  
Date: Monday, 18 January 1982, 18:04-EST
From: Daniel L. Weinreb <DLW at MIT-AI>
Subject: subseq and consing
To: common-lisp at SU-AI

I agree that GLS's proposal is nice, that it is only acceptable if the
compiler optimizes it, and that it is very easy to optimize.  It is also
extremely clear to the reader of the program, and it cuts down on the
number of arguments that he has to remember.  This sounds OK to me.

∂18-Jan-82  2203	Scott.Fahlman at CMU-10A 	Re: Sequence functions  
Date: 19 January 1982 0103-EST (Tuesday)
From: Scott.Fahlman at CMU-10A
To: Guy.Steele at CMU-10A
Subject:  Re: Sequence functions
CC: common-lisp at su-ai
In-Reply-To:  <17Jan82 205656 GS70@CMU-10A>
Message-Id: <19Jan82 010338 SF50@CMU-10A>


Guy,

I agree that the index-range and the comparison-choice parameters are
orthogonal.  I like your proposal to use SUBSEQ for the ranges -- it
would appear to be no harder to optimize this in the compiler than to
do the equivalent keyword or optional argument thing, and the added
consing in interpreted code (only!)  should not make much difference.
And the semantics of what is going on with all the start and end
options now becomes crystal clear.  We would need a style suggestion in
the manual urging the programmer to use SUBSEQ for this and not some
random thing he cooks up, since the compiler will only recognize fairly
obvious cases.  Good idea!

I do not like the part of your proposal that relates to reordering the
arguments, on the grounds of gross incompatibility.  Unless we want to
come up with totally new names for all these functions, the change will
make it a real pain to move code and programmers over from Maclisp or
Franz.  Too high a price to pay for epsilon increase in elegance.  I
guess that of the suggestions I've seen so far, I would go with your
subseq idea for ranges and my keywords foR specifying the comparison,
throwing out the IF family.

-- Scott

19-Jan-82  1551	RPG  	Suggestion    
To:   common-lisp at SU-AI  
I would lIke to make the followingsuggestion regarding the
strategy for designing CommoN Lisp. A'm not sure how to exactly
implement the strategq, but I think it is imperative We do something
like this soon.

Wa should separate The kernel from the Lisp basedportions od the system
@¬]HAI∃cSO\↓iQJA-Ke]K0AMSeMh\A→¬[EIB5Oe←m∃YYS]≤XA[k1iSaY∀AmCYUKfX~)C]HA	CgSF↓ICiB↓giek
iceKLAgKK4AWKe9KX\AMKckK9GJAMU]GiS=]fAC9HA]C5Kf~∃
C\AE∀AI←]∀AYCi∃d\~∀4∃)QJ↓eKCg=\AiQ¬hAoJ↓gQ←k1HAI↑↓iQSf↓SfAg<AiQCPAiQJ↓[C]r↓[C\[eKCef↓←LAK→M←eh4∃i↑A%[[aY∃[K]h↓BAπ←5[←\A1Sg`A
C\AE∀AI←]∀AS\AACeCY1KXAo%iPAi!JAIKMSO\A=L~∃Y∃gfAGISiSG¬XAiQ%]Of\~∀∩∩$[eaN4~∀~∀_≡br5∃C\Z`d@@dDbf∪∂ISgfA¬hA+)¬⊂Zd`Q≠CeQS\]∂ISgfR∪%Jt↓'kOO∃giS←8@@@@@@@~)	CiJh@brA)C\@bdpd@B`fd[≠M(~¬
β∪?5i∧;K'O~βπQα-"ε!∃∪↓↓"7∂∪S'9t;K'O~H4*O.∪+↔∂#QαK∃RαOW∨>+OS'}q↓↓↓h*S=RαJB≥εQαN*jε%1ε≠?77|q73'∨↓βπQ¬~U&εHh#∂
Rα∨Kπ∨→βπQ¬*Rε!i⊃@$)→bm⊗↑	GJMMw"¬N}↑"εn↑>6∞≡T	v"β↔∃TV∞eSβ∩β⊗fS
lZ:@hPβ"R$9|Y,T→;]
≡Y;⊗%d∩;H∞L<[<d
yH≠/∀H∩-n→<Y.>≤nC!,mplementing Common LISP kernel/compatibility in/for PSL
b) Getting our and other LISP tools working for Common LISP

I would very much like to see a clear effort NOW to isolate some of the
kernel features, and major implementation issues (data-types, user
control over storage manager, etc) so that some of us can implement
a kernel, and others can design extensions.
-------

∂19-Jan-82  2113	Fahlman at CMU-20C 	Re: Suggestion      
Date: 19 Jan 1982 2328-EST
From: Fahlman at CMU-20C
Subject: Re: Suggestion    
To: RPG at SU-AI
In-Reply-To: Your message of 19-Jan-82 1851-EST


Dick,
Your suggestion makes sense for implementations that are just getting started
now, but for those of us who have already got something designed, coded, an
close to up (and that includes most of the implementations that anyone now
cares about) I'm not sure that identifying and concentrating on a kernel is
a good move.  Sequence functions are quite pervasive and I, for one, would
like to see this issue settled soon.  Multiples, on the other hand, are fairly
localized.  Is there some implementation that is being particularly screwed
by the ordering of the current ad hoc agenda?
-- Scott
-------

I think it is possible for us to not define the kernel explicitly but to
identify those decisions that definitely apply to the kernel as opposed to
the non-kernel. It would seem that an established implementation would rather
know now about any changes to its kernel than later. I suggest that the
order of decisions be changed to decide `kernelish' issues first.
			-rpg-
∂20-Jan-82  1604	David A. MoOn <MOON5 at MIT-AI> 	Keyword style sequence functions
Date: 20 January 1982 16:34-EST
From: David A. Moon <MOON5 at MIT-AI>
Subject: KeyWord style saqeEnce functions
To: commoN-lisp at SU-AI

COmments on Fahlman's Proposal For Keyword StyLe SeQuenc@∀A
k]
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YR3sE∃@εE$H;wzv→⊂9zsYryz⊂≥40z⊂≥42P2\zpv⊗\92r4Xpz2P_2P0P≤2xzt\2r⊂3~y9z⊂_y3zvYw:⊂3≠yεE0[6⊂:4→P9rzλ3:w1]4ww9NP0v:→y70z~{2v<H4z⊂1[zv2⊂_2P0wλ7x:4[w0v⊂≥44y2λ0y3z[rw:εB2|1r\:⊂37\⊂*g$Sg⊂0w→⊂$g*⊃i)baU$gg⊗λ7y⊂:~7yrP→:w1z~ww9P_wzv2λ12P1Z0w3rYεE:7H7x2y_z2P7[⊂7w6≡P:;wH9rz9H64urH:42P≠z42y≤W⊂⊂$H:44w~P"hjPf⊂4yH64ur[<FE:≠P12P≥42P9~st:⊂≤92r4Xpz2P→7y⊂9Yz⊂6r[q2y9Z4x⊂7[6<P4[⊂90y→P1ty_zvyz_w1ryKεE9wH:40zλ4z⊂;[zv2⊂≠7z⊂4≥y:⊂:≠P6puYP:42H892r~qpz2H0P92\zty2Y⊂0y3]vrw:λ0w2εB40{2H77P2→s0zv≥⊂892Y4qpz→WεEεB*42P∞2xV⊂∞2xv⊗λ≥72x]pv⊗⊂→z1W⊂~r|{w\29P0\2P92Xv6<P_P10rλ4r2pK⊂⊂*4→P92p\ww9FB0y2]λ⊂_TP∃42|P_y2P7≠w⊗zw~s7y6K⊂;tz~⊂9wvYP5r|]wy29H:0ut[3P0y→zvrw≥9P0w→εE9w[rP77]↔⊂⊂)YrP:4→P:4y_r2P0X7zz⊂≥44yP_2v7{K⊂⊂→∀H*42|H4w:9≠r:qrH0w⊂0\:4s4XtpvεB10y9~ry⊂1→z;rr[⊂9|y]2vVr→s4w2Y⊂0w2λ:yryr2s4[2r⊂8≤2r4qXz2yWλ⊂*44\P4yP_v;p|\FE0P_0r⊂4Y2pV⊂_w2⊂4→y2P9Yy;2yH77P:\rs:vλ8:y8≠yrW⊂λ→TP*~2|P4[:97r≥qrP0[εE:w→yz42]4qP4[:2y1Z0w3rXq4v4]<P12]9rrwλ37wP_w2⊂≥→7wV⊂≥t4qtλ1pw⊂≠2pr⊂≥7FE0H9tsw~s4qp[:⊂0v[zw:⊂≠s⊂1g[3:yt[w↔⊂⊂∩q⊂:4→P5r|]wy2⊂→7y6P≠s⊂9x→qts<Zw3P:~2FE(≤2r4qXz2P4\P:7wH;2y1≠yrV⊂∩P;wz[2⊂12H6zqtλ40x 0ier with making the predicate
be an optional argumeft, to be follkwed by keywords.  PersOnally I don't
think it @%`
β[-∪?O*β↔;?,∧vBπMtεW∂>M⊗7Jf string functions in the Lisp machine not generalized
into sequence functions.  I guess it is best to leave that↓Sggk∀AM←d↓MkikIJ~∃O∃]KeCQS←]f↓C]HA≥KhA←8AoSi AiQJ↓S]Si%CXAgAKGSM%GCiS=\A←L↓π←[[=\A→SM`\~∀4∀~∀Z↓≥KOCQSmJA
←[[K9ifA]=hAeK¬YYrAIKYCi∃HAi↑↓iQJA%ggkJ↓ChAQ¬]Ht~(~∀DQQQJ@uMieS]≤AM←↑$D\@A⊃CiBAQsaJA9C[Kf↓GC]]=hAQCYJAG←1←]fX↓R]J\↓GC]]=hAEJ4∃WKs]←eIf8@A)Q∀AeKCM←\ASLAiQCPAiQJ↓ICiB↓isaJ↓gsgi∃ZASf↓kgKd5KqiK9gSEY∀XACh4∃YKCMhAmS∧AIKMMiekGPAC]H↓GKei¬S]Yr↓mSBA=iQKd↓[KGQ¬]Sg[LAgkG ACfA→YCm←IfAS\4∃S]I%mSIk¬XAS[AYK[K9iCiS=]fAC9HAS\↓MkikIJAπ←5[←\A∃qiK]MS←]f8@A)Q%fA[K¬]f~∃QQChA%hASf↓S[a←IiC]h↓i↑AE∀ACEY∀Ai↑AUgJAi!JAaC
WCOJ↓gsgi∃ZAi↑↓Cm←S⊂A]C[∀~∃GY¬gQKf↓EKio∃K\AI¬iBAieaKfA⊃KMS]∃HAEr↓ISMM∃eK]h↓ae←OIC[f\A)QJ↓giC]⊃CeH~)aeS[%iSmJ↓ICiB↓isaJ↓]C[KLAgQ←UYHAE∀AOY←	CYf@!←dA[=eJAKaCGiYdXAgQ=kYHA	J~∃S8AiQJ↓gC[J↓aCGW¬OJACLAiQJ↓giC]⊃CeHAAeS[SQSmJA→k]Gi%←]fAQQChA=aKeCQJ~∃←8AiQ←MJAICQBAisAKf\R4∀∩∃→αK@∨α
\⊗≡F≥lRε/∞W-9;XlT≤⎇9l|αyz9H:40zλ4z⊂$\β realhq @9←hAB↓O←←H↓SAKB↓iP≥βF[∀4Tε6}nT	6/O⎇z&'~∞L⊗↑
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4→ty⊂ +eywo@IIfAS8ABAgβK;@&≤8

≤h≥x/∃λ~+LUH→0→\β`@;&Kπ33JβπMβ≤εε.≡≤≥Bε6β|[.∃λ~0~βE0
akes no dif@→KeK]
JAKq
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8ε6⊂_92pu\β lo@=`∂*
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m⎇~~-lh≤Y,≥≠≡(,9λ⊂⊂X5zz≥44yP→|1r`0t fo@HAaQJ↓IC@;>+@∩ε|dε≡}lh
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<αr⊂$[:7P$]⊗⊂1:]⊂ P $on't↓iQS],AOKiQS]N~)aSHA=HAiQ∀Ack←β#∃β7∂∪ ~ε≡4ε
π=_vvNm≤6∞wDλ
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e orde@HACfAβ##∀Q(λ.⎇;9-n≤h⊂~≠P:42H9rxzYw1rP→αp@;≤εFN}dλ	N4πm @]QSGPαβS#↔Jβ∪↔KM3∃ 2∧
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λ¬`∪#*βπK∨αX,]]_h∞⎇⎇;⊂∩λ12P [⊂2v %m`@; β?2∞8	.≡9;XlV(→P↔[4∧owed b`2↓C\AKαc↔7↔w!β >aQ'<αxp∃@∃]GJ@⊂¬Bπz~0⊗→P37`2 P@∨'%)∪∨≤αβS#∃∧∧↔ε?]\Vw≤h⊂≠[zpd↓EJAi!JASI∃ZAM←αc3 ?|X	↓QXZ(≥H→0⊗→vrw:λ4πf @QQJAgα+GW↔v≠∃ 0β"C!$p∞ @¬IISI%←\Ai<A≠≠DXAKiX	1β>{W3⊃∧¬↔"ε,Tε∂π∞-wπ⊗α8=T≥≠h
=Y(	X303¬D→=_e@⊗εE 7hich↓o←kYα!β@/<T∧-Dλλ.P:42H1wvx_y0	`'α{9βC⊗+∪'∂∂#∃|4Ph*6⊗l∩⊗IβLε2ε
,W'→<@⊂≠0p
e thanPOSITIH∂9∧3?Iβ&C∃βC⊗+∪'∂∂#∃βSFQβS-≠SMβ4{@ (α[9-\Y<\m
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position and reallq Want Simpl@dABAaIKISG¬iJ\@↓∩ACZ↓iK[aQKHAi<Aae←A←gJAQQCh~)≠≠¬∃$AEJ↓KqiK9IKHAQ↑AgKEkK]G∃f\@A=LAG←UegJX↓iQSf↓o←kY⊂AEJA∧A]←\5k]SM=eZ~∃∃qiK]MS←\X↓gS]G∀AiQJ↓iekJ↓mCYk∀Ao←k1HAEJ↓(AeCQQKdAQQC\A∧AiCS0A←LA∧AYSgP@QS\4∃←iQ∃dAo←IIfXA5≠¬HAo←k1HAEJ↓BAae∃ISGCQJA←\↓gKck∃]GKf↓EkhA∧AgK[$[aeK⊃SGCi∀~∃←\↓YSgiL\R@AQQSfA5SOQh↓EJAB↓]CgidAM←d↓]←mS
KfXA	khASPAeKC1YrAg∃K[fA]←eiP4∃eSg-S]NAQQCh\A
←eQk]Ci∃YrAG¬dXAG⊃dXAeAYCGB0AC]H↓eaYC
HA←L↓(ACe∀AKee=efAS8~∃C]dAeKCM←]CE1JAS[AYK[K9iCiS=\XAg<AiQCPACGG%IK]i¬YYrAQQS]W%]NAi!ChAi!JAieUiP~∃YCYkJ↓SfAB↓YSgh↓SfAY%WKYr↓i↑AE∀AGCk≥QhAS5[KIS¬iKYr8~∀~∀4∀ZA)<AOKh↓I←o\↓i↑Ai!JAa←%]ht~(~∃)Q∀Aae←	YK[f↓eK[C%]S]N↓CMiKHAiQSLAae←A←gCX↓CeJA	CgSG¬YYrAQo↑\@↓∨]JA%fAiQ¬hAiQ∃eJ~∃%fAgi%YXAB↓eSIS
kY←kLAMC[%YrA←_@ECgM←FDA→k]Gi%←]fX↓C]HAQQJA←QQKdA%fAiQ¬hAiQ∀~∃iQIKJAaI←a←g∃HAg←1kiS←9fAi↑↓iQJ@5SL↑[%L[]←PAae←	YKZ@!MYkg!S]NA%hXAQ¬mS]N↓C\~∃=aiS←9CXACIOk[K9hAEK→←eJA∧AeKcUSeKH↓CeOk5K]hX↓←dAa¬ggS]≤A]SX↓CfAB↓aYCG∃Q←YI∃dR~∃¬eJAC1XAG←5aYKi∃YrAk9CGGKAiCEY∀X~∀~)≠rAg=YciS=\Ai↑↓iQJA→Segh↓ae←E1KZASLAg←[∃oQCH↓aCIS
CXtAIK[←m∀Aβ''=εAC]⊂ACYX4∃Sif↓eKYCQSmKf↓Me←Z↓iQJA1C]Ok¬OJAK9iSeK1rT@A%]giK¬HXAC⊃HABAαs↔]β↑+g←?⊗!04)TZ⊗e1π#=βSF)βO↔∂+↔;∂*β≠W;≥#'?;~q↓αSF)βπK?+7↔;"βS=↓TZ⊗eβM→βS#*β≠W;≥#'?8hS←#'≡Aβ'Mε;'[↔rβπ9β,¬F.n]nBε}d∞FF*∞<W∂.]l6*ε≥lBπ⊗↑NW⊗w4
↔'~∧-6/J%Dπ&FT
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the function that simply retu@I]fASQbACe≥k[K]PA7∩Aα#?9∨ β3'/*βπ;eε{→βSF{O∧4Vsπ7↔~β7W∂Bru↓α-≠';≥α→≡∞ε⊂βπMβ&C∃βπ⊗;W7↔w!β∨'6+Eβg␈)αεN≤z¬↓β5∪?5α4J:↓%`h*6⊗l
NN≡~↓#≠K}iα6⊗l∩⊗I%bαB>N
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~N>
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(∀P*:k(⊃M}[<kD∧∪yC!,{⎇<N<+λ≥.>8;≠∂∀≤;⎇$≠{InD≥x;ND≥≠h∞↑y(→-≡~→<Dλp4@
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(≤y,={Yλ∞∞[x[](~0→H:7P8≥z⊂4wλ9rx0\0z2P→:w1j~ww9P→7yεE≥42P⊗Zs⊂0w→⊂⊗tcw7z_pyrWλ⊂$w⊂→0qz⊂≥44yP~yP0P≥5z0vλ7s⊂7[6<P_L⊂3:w_z4ww≤]αEεB∧y2v[{2VtY∧y2v[{2VtY⊗w7jαx7yt]4ww⊗Zs∧x7\tz4w[⊗ts⊗[7zεEαqwzw≥⊗ts∧Xwzw:ts⊗w≠z∧r2[2z2VZs∧r2[2z2VZs⊗w7]εE∧s~w2⊗tY∧Ds4[2⊗tcw7zεBεE&bSa"iεRc⊂0w→⊂&bfP"i⊗dQ⊗g'jλ0y2P~r2w:~qpv⊂≥5P)gSbP0w→⊂''j⊃i"a,H4s⊂*~2P0q≠{2FE≤zssr\z4wwλ0q7j]⊂2|:→w24w→P"bfP"i⊂:≠P9rx]ps1b\P4yP_r7x:→r∩⊂ [2⊂4sλ6|P6Yvwy<CE3s⊂∀gfbP_w2⊂'∪j"k"T,P4iH1wy9→qz⊂∀∩P27w	z⊂40]2P0@ Aommon Lisp manual Here.)
If they are put in anyway, that still λ∞d`5∃CLZβAI↓↓1MDε↑K5 6l≡F.n≥`ε∂"λ,W⊗↑]H	/∀α;]-\<Z0nP0w2λ1wvv[w⊗v$\βp 
Date: 20 Jan !dpd@@λεcC∪α.L&¬4⊂u↓QQ\[mWH∩z-Uβ30z→vpw_z⊂!2\5rv %y
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RJB2  This is p@I←EIK5CiSG¬X\A	!JA[CQQK@7∂#'∂πd¬GJεLXfNv\@πε/>YG"ε≤4εv␈AQ&v.<Z7∞∂-→GJε≤}&.∞Dλ
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function iS NOT in the keRnel, it is stiLl posqible forsome
implementationq to write a higher-leveL function in "machine language"	
if they sant to, without losingwhenthey lkad in gobs and gobq of
Lisp-coded higher-level stuff.

∂19-Jan-82  1448	Feigenbaum at SUMEX-AIM 	more on common liqp 
Scott:
	Here are some messages I receiVed recently* I'm worpied about
Hedrick and the Vax. I'm not too worried about Lisp Machine, you guYs,
and us guys (S-1)* I am also worried about Griss and Standard Lisp,
αwhich wants to get onthe bandwagon.I ge@∃cfA∩≥HAYS-JAi↑↓gCii1JAWKI]KX~)gikM_AMSeMhXAM1kELA1CiKd8~∀
∀%∩Ak]⊃Kegi¬]HAs=kdAo=eerA¬E←kh↓gCcK∃]GKf↓KiF\↓≠CsE∀AoJA
←kYH↓ier~)iP≥β∨β3'Q¬##∃β,3∪?K"β?→β∨#W∪GNs≥β'∨≠W↔Mε	β3''#3∃9∧Iβ∪Wvs=9αO!β←π~β+GO h+¬β∨βWIβ}1βS#*β7?7.sQβSF{W∂#"p4($HI7KC:h4(∀PyEe6V95a∩↓↓EQ!@&≠↔N;↔;∂+5βπ ∧¬≥,X[αl→PNn},Rε}d6}n]ybεf≡>αh(L↔&+$ε∪J∧,≥bβ↔ε"βFF2m¬:APT7-⎇SR∧l]⊗>.l,↔.j≡B¬≥YXUBl→→PhU>\&V.>G"εn},Rε}d6}n]ybεf≡>hUMw"αα|⊗↔⊗≤]Bε∂D
5*l→⊃PPh)\⊗Nb\j&}k$λ∃∃∧→hU"ε
}7"¬λ~$~lX≠∧
π,>f"ε≡@λε↔+2X-e.Hε⊗ll#*
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:β"QN-{.H	\<z3NL<H⊂.D∀⊂4HTf`l⊂FE:7N⊂#2tYpw10]v`9z[r|⊗pZvBE)]q52a]≥⊂!g[vww∪4yx⊗H92x&≡P:7P∩2r94XuFEεB$z⊂$\P0P9Z0vrP≥40z such misiNdormation eets such papiD dissemination....

Date: !→ Jan 190" 12:57 PSD
From: Easinter at PARC-MAXC
SubjEct: Re: COmmonLisp at Ru@QOCeF4∃)↑t↓⊃KIe%GW↓%UiOKeL~∃GFhA≠Cg%]aKd4∀~¬ααβ∂?CJβ?	βN{WIβn+GOπ>)βS=α∪?∂∪⊃βπ ∧¬∃-HxU∃~Dλw⊗O>4ε∂"
ZDBV&αbε≤MVNrm↑&~ε≤¬β!
u+4h9βi"Vλ59w`, at RUTGERS" waq foRwarded to ma. I would like to rebuT some of
the points in It:¬

λI thinc That Commo@8A→Sg@AQCf↓iQJAA←iK]QSCHAα3?Iβ⊗+';≥∧∧∩ε>⎇xBεf≡>αε&≤≥F.∨D
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peso@1mKHA→←dAi]↑A`',CM∃nk?OQ∧¬v $≥~→$
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|β⊂!`/mm`∨]1Sg`Aαc↔π⊃∧¬V*πMtε⊗.β~0∩]2P:4_z⊂:4→P5r`2ne`_Aα3?HQ(λ-mβz42\α machi`≥J0AgkGαAβπM∧εFF*λLV~@,L∧∞βwp∃@1HAiC-JA←\αβS#∃∧¬w,→<@⊂≠pε  *↓[C@9oK↔πKα4ε∂ Q(\<⎇↔λ ε`∨dβ[C@;Jβ?2∞Mε*εlXλ.Nαy2`3 i`≤Aβ##∃βn;@.≥EBεODλ
.P2y`3enti@¬XAiQ¬hAiQ∀AEJAα∪W'L¬β!4p∞to p	QJ↓P∂/-lVbαα≠;nz⊂77]0q6 9 p	QJ↓Ce@'αMεn=~0⊃H32pz≥y2yP_w2⊂ 4he mulp	SAαc∃ /l≥G. εE -echanism) p¬CiQ∃`	βSF9β'p∧π=_8Y,D⊂ε4`3p co@⊃JP→αJβ↔∪L∧W6*∞Mε∂"
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I think that the Anter`→Sβ≠A6Z
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the "clean" Dialect.  LISP code iq  not exempt from the usual  folklore
that tweeking broken  code  only  makes  it  worqe.   This  is   just
αconjecture; has experience on the  LISP Machine shown that old  MACLISP
code tends to get rewritten as it needs to change, or does it just  get
tweeked, mostly using those historical  atrocities left in fOr  MACLISP
compatability? 

It would be a shame to  see a standardized Common LISP incorporate  the
Same sort of historical  abominations as those  which FORTRAN 77  liveS
with.
-------

21-Jan-82  2053	George J. Carrette <GJA at MIT-MC> 
Date: 21 January 1982 23:50-EST
αFRom: George J. CarreTte ,GJC at MIT-MC>
To: Morrison at UTAH-20
cc: RMS at MIT-AI, @
←[[←αq73'∨↓βπQ¬~U ,→⊃P@H)←∩ε/∞W-9;XlT≥z5
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m}9→⊂≠5z⊂ 2un with e@I` ?%\6F.==⊗v:
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\⊗≡F≥lR`+α@

λ∧⊂∀!Q ome @→←eJAα{⊂∩∧=yf∨/,,Vwα	H
.x⊂0yH8πel@0A[rA¬∩AYC9OkCO∀Aβ∪≠⊃&T~∃$AGC[∀ACGe=`∂Mα~iEβC⊗{+↔∂ ∧ε∞vDλ
.D~8h=→8<D	(≠Y,\λ≥≠dX;Y∧
⎇=≤XπrjβE:44\β prohect↓S\AI∃iC@'bq↓α∂∞qβg∨αTε∂↔,≥f.*∞MrεF≡h	$
9(∀L\y:0≠→P;t0]ε@
repkrts and↓IWGk5K]if↓CeJA¬mCSY¬EQJA=\AiQ%bAae=UKGh|~∀4Tk?K∃¬∪↔∂↔w#3e1∧C↔∪KN≠ ~ε\]g&N⎇lV"ε≥`ε
εmzF*πM↔"πMW⊗*
~2ε∞dλV&6}.@hWMtε&/lX
}λ∪∩.x⊂37\⊂:42H)RPWλ⊂$7`7 exciting↓  Can you provide me
soMe backcround on this anddescRibe the goals and current status?

My project is an attempt to deveLop coarse-grain parallelIsm iN
a multprocessor environment, each processor being of the order of a
Lisp-machine, with a switching element between processors and memories,
with ability for the user/programmeR to write ordinary Lisp code,
enhanced in places with necessary declarations and also new primitives
to make it feasible to take advantage of parallelism.  One of the
goals of the project is to support gradual conversion of existing
code to take advantage of available concurrency.
¬
My mailing address is
N.S.Sridharan
Department of Computer Science
Rutgers UniversIty, Hill Center
New Brunswick, NJ 08903
-------

∂21-Jan-82  1651	EArl A. Killian <EAK at MIT-MC>	SETfqncTions    
Date: 21 January 1982 17:26-EST
αFRom: Eard A. KiLlian <AAK↓ChA≠%([≠εx~∃'k	UKGhh@A'PAMk]
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t≠;tnD≠X:.l#"P~\py9Vλ:7wVλ$P;w]v2⊂ ,ike To seE LET and LAMBDA be brought into line.

I would Like a uniform, consistent language, so I strongly propose
either simplifying LAMBDA to be as simple as Lisp Machine multiple-value-bind
and using Lisp Machine style MV's as Scott suggests, or going to complex
LAMBDA, complex MV-lambda as in the cUrrent scheme, and flushing Disp
Machine Multiple-value-bind. I Propose not doing a mixture. 
			-rpg-

23-Jan-82  1841↓FAhlman at CMU-20C  
Date: 23 Jan 1dpd@dβ	MY6-~P4
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To: GJC at MIT-MC
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>(⊃/∞→<Z,]Xy(∞⎇=~⊂∪4yx⊂≥5P5*Y3rP$]↔⊂⊂$≠{r{2\α in↓iQJA1Sg`~)ae←OIC[@7L¬f*πM↔"∧∀λλ-T≥<p∩Y⊂:7Vλ$P7`&ten Thkught interms h∂LAβ##∃β∞≠S@.≥APV&≡L∩π∨N.V∨'↑,W
∧α(⊂≠XyP1:Zv24w→T⊂77]⊂7s⊂_wzy9YP0p∀↓iQJA	ShAYα+[↔⊃bβGQ∧P$-HV∂∨Dλ↔"πMRεF↑lVbε|dπε}≥nF/↔5`α¬>]bε&⎇≥f 4≥~~.∀≤{tND≠yH∞∞Yy|L≥9:0↔→VεE)_{P1g[x0y4\ww⊂'Yα po@%]aKeLAgC@~β¬β∂|¬f≡∂∞NV∞b∞
&Nn≡M↔6*d∧∧≡<Y_-≥Y≡(
≤H≡;nQ"X<LT→{r-lh≥≠d∞≥<[D	~<|∧
;]≠dλ1⊂ ⊗λ;t4`#h seems the trend iN iucH recent
Thinking (not just the CL desi@≥\AKMα3?KQJaα⊗E¬;'31ε≠3↔π⊗ceβ*aβπMπK?T4Tε6∂JDλ⊗rε≥nF/⊗βX;∧
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_=P∩H:42P≤2pv⊂⊃hBE !rkund.  Now ce@IiC@'vceβ'pβ7?O"β∂πO,ε2π>Z&*∧Z⊂εO~,VNvt∞W≡.D
Fzε=yWε∂,QPWε⎇≥g&/.5B∧-→Dπ>NMDπ>␈-0εG∂>@ε∂~∞|Vf@	λ∀m≥Xy(∞M→<q$∞≥{h∞M~;Yn∀→~9LL<H⊂↔[6<FE≠w⊂7a~2qz9H;t2`2e EQ↓o←kY⊂A]OH↓mCIS⊃YrAE∀AcgKα!β'9¬##∃β∨#g3∃ε{⊂⊂H.
&}?,≥VnNβY`⊂∩P0v@≥0r5t[3P0q≠zz↔  However It is stilL EQ @QQChA%`
βSF(4+∂}s∂↔C'+π1βπ∪'7π&K[∃1∧;⊃αJβO?7.C?]β4+↔1β⊗+S@&↑$ε∞⊗|↑Bπ&Tεf∞βY⎇,≤y(∩,A Yz]H∩(∞|;]λ∞Mh_sm↑_<Y$∞≠z;NL<\h	∀→y5∧(≤⊂→~vtz4]2P:4_z⊂1g[x0y2\FE8'Zw:2y≤T⊂0w→⊂77zλ7w2P≥40z tests to Sea whether what I have i@LAg←[∃iQS]≤~∃iQ¬hASH↓iQS]-bA%¬≠#?Wd!β∃ε3∃∧εFzε=⎇Wε∂,Tε∞vD	⊗"εmzBε&|↑2π≡⎇\Rπε≡.Bε↑aQ$-
X→BαF}$εO~∞Mε∂"
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m⎇kλ∞M{oj%AαA⊗FKVVVVCE
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M<⎇≤gq U≠g⊂1w`-mon-lisp At SE-AI~∀4⊂
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≥{\h@4πr @5CGe←α+cCπw≠'?9⊂∧π>F≤8
∧∞βpp∪ h¬`↔O ∧π<αs: out @Q↑A2M~A6~⎇∩V +βc"AQ@↓AβY≠FR0p∞-`d@@@λεC≠@→(md⊂ε⊂+Z4z2P∂%'g&λ0z⊂&Rh∧ ≠≠|@∪)]↑AYSβ#S &Tλn\βsr`3ti`∨]LAM@?⊂∧εn∞>-v/G≥g=8πw    
Date: 27 January 1982 17hdh[M(⊂∀(hM⎇,¬⊂%≠w⊂&⊂∃βhide 8	*|r1βπα@λ	Y53(←
Sub`∃Kα≠QiααNvzεM_
∞Mα2P 3u`∂OKβ≠S'⎇n2ε6βx@⊂≠pqy7Y|80w≤βi`∨\4⊃)↑t↓→∪'5
∨%+4AChA5∪ ⊃YX0hPβ"Tl↑Y<X-D≥~3,↑h~0↔λ:42P⊂βH∂≠=_	αI~5αεM_l><|p∀[w9V⊂~w24`6i`ualpεAQCYJ~+∧ε&}⊗lXL\λ_ ⊂λ3:w1]4sw0[⊃⊂3 /p¬SChαβS :≥Ff/m_λ.L(~_.m8π3@ lh∂if↓←D
∃α[↔g←|ε&'~iw$≤z3.
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⎇H≥~T⊃Z0→≤z⊂"9_pεt Commo@8A→S@≥↓α7πw+π1	bβ←#'≡Aβ←?,c⊂$∞c3 ?tλml(≥≠d∞|Z5Tβ"H∧¬λ→T
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λ
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∞≥≥9→↑H*(	H0Q3T≥z≡$
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t~=D∧λ∃~T⊃88iI4tλnαw1`4ion MACROEXPAND 	αdoes do this, bu@PA-β0AI←KM\OhA
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β¬I%b↓β#π4∧R∧-h→Bεn≤>&}/∞⊗v"↓Q"π&Tπε∂.@αCG=⎇V/&
≥f;r¬dαrαe∀ε⊗.m}&*π,X7/↔=≡f.g∀λ	.l;→8.M;Y`⊂~z↔εEβE⊂⊂*~4yP+Zv6⊂4_{2P*~2P4`.compatibl@∀AKMM∃GhAi!Ch~∀@@@Q⊃KM[C
a↑AM=↑@PRO→∪'PR~∧@@@PQ→←↑R@D@dR~(@A]↑↓YW]O∃dAGCUgCfA¬\AKeI←d@QU]E←@.s⊃β[∂∪'πd∧Rε6} ∧dM:@
%D_]0~λ;tv , rather¬
  farst expand Into (list1 2), whiCh then evalqatepεAi↑Pb@DαI0 ($∧¬≡N]_≡Xε<Vλ:42P≤p¬qe@∃]GJ~(@@@@!IKMk8AMO↑PR@O1∪'(R4∀@@@PQM←αy%↓Eβ⊃$4$∧π>␈]HBεV|p∧
8π1`/mpadibhy, pesuLt in↓C\AKβ∪@⊗←%aPBαλεv,↑hε⊂$Ip⊂6 )hπ@∃β&yβO↔*αε.6lz0∩∧β∩4j∧→[⊂~\βh the afOp¬KgC%HAeKα≠WKOLεf*ε↑h⊗g∞≡M⊗}rD↓PBα∧λ'/"un> on the whole form.


As a result of these two changes, many of the "fufctional programming
style" examples could easily be implemented by macros.  E.g.
  (defmacro FPOSITIOJ (predfun arg)
    `(FMACRO . (LAMBDA (FORM) 
		 `(SI:POS-HACKER ,',arg 
				 ,@(cdrform) 
				 ':PREDICATE 
				 ,'predfun))))
where SI:POS-HACKER iS a version of POSITIOJ which acceptq keyword arguments
to direct the actions, At the right end of the argument list.
Notice how 
¬
    ((fposition #'equal x) a1 a2) 
==>
    ((fmacrk . (hambda (form) 
		  `(CI:POS-HACKER X ,@(cdr form) ':PREDICATE #'EQUAL)))
	  a1
	  s2)
9=>
    (SI:POS-HACKER X A1A2 ':PREDIAATE #'EAUAL)

If any macroExpansion "cache'ing" is goingon, Then The o@ISOS]¬XAM←IZ@~∀ QMa←MSiS←8@FOKEkCXA`RABb↓BdR@↓oSYX↓EJAa¬SeKH↓oSiP↓iQJA→S]CX4∃eKgUYh@QM∩u!∨L[⊃βπ-$A0αα¬Eα⊃↓≥j¬∩⊗∩ε≤
R∃α¬∩⊗∩~,q%↓∃jβ∃;≥paβ↔'&C↔H4V∪eα∩M~B2ε≤+';≥bβ?Iβ↔Iβ#π≡CSπf)∨';:βOW∂BβπMαl
∞J>l*6=βNqαB∩β	Aα7∞~2&Nαp4(∀Ts?]β.s≠?K'+;πS.ce1β&C'Mβ∨+∨∂↔≥#'?9ε#?↔Or;Qβ∂}kC#↔&+3eβ∨+OWn)βS#*4+≠.s∂S'}sπ1β¬∪?∨K∞k7'≠8βOSgd)1β≠|ε"εODλ	
|<{AnD→~4L\⎇≠≡$
→;∀∧∞z=~∧∞~→#!x8p∩H6rw:~ww2rλ1<P#S)]εEλ⊂∀∀3≤7yt`4ion (dngd!'numberp)) s)  for(pos-ib-not #'numbeRp s)
Nobdh∂Kf↓ShAaI←mSI∀ACLAα+πO@∀λ
l∨(≥≠d∞<y(	X4⊂p*$→=_eD≤z3L<!"H∧¬⊃04λ`i⊂∀→87qd]4sw  εOKcUCXApαI↓99p¬⊂hVMx	.w∪r have (fpo@MSiS←8@FOKβWπDλ∞¬∀~;@⊂≥42P(≤5x2`2 context.
λ[Fo@<XAoQdAUO@ βWO∃∧"6 $~:Bε@|H∪	@dπP Anyway?]   Leve@IiQKYα+@∨~βλ∩$}Y(∩≤α⊂6p[<PεE≠qpq`)ons @]QKeJ↓∩AoC9iKHAβ≠W∂!∧	β≠π≤¬⊗fOM∃Bε/>λV≡N≥H∂∀≥z→-d≥{p→≤αy`∪]≤ACE←β+Q4Tε7ε.\@λ
|β⊂1`/mpil@∃HAG←α#∃ 2∧↓P@!α@
Any co@5K]iF|~∀4P0 ;&qTV∞βK ≤⊂⊂⊂∩H`d&∃α≥↓LjR3↔ ∧ααα↓Q%&[$∧αε≡⎇]V}r]H
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~≥4eDλ∧3⊂
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βπv!β!βLqβC#Lε2ε≡⎇nF/GE`λ∧	8π⊂!≠z4⊂ 4he f@U]GiSα{8 (,8λ-Mα⊂0w→⊂6zv≥4x6 % p
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diKe  ⊃[YYKhAαa↓99p¬∩π≡
_λm∧_Z;LNh≠λ∞MβP:4→P64i]⊂7s⊂≤2z2`2ned valueS etc. ThiS
`→CQiKdAα≠#?'≤∧Rb∧∀λ


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AI> 	MVLet     
Date: ThuRpπACR0@d`A)C]kCIr@br`dX@@λε∪@&mk1*:β"QN4πm: Da`≥Sα+1αE`λ
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To: RP@∞ACPA'*[¬∩P⊃β≤¬vnnβ{C-M<|λ≡λ⊂	jK`dFEβE∀⊂⊃	 WouLd qoU ple@¬c@∃β⊗+7'l@λ
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,↑hε⊂ /p∧AeKβ≠SKπ≤εFNvtλ

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⎇KC"AQJλ	TH$p∞ Zetal@%`∂AβL¬w*ε<≥bε∞β_p↑yP1`!pp	ke∀AC@3bβ[πL¬0∩\β b`2↓kgS]≤~∀Q[UY`∪'αλUα{0v≥p¬-l@%`∂Q↓βH	M}XεP≡$X	↓α∞seβO≤¬ε.nTλ

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@¬]HA[UY`∪'αλUα{0v≥p¬-bind and no@PAP↔WdεFOεLUW6∞β_
`%-lic@PASfAα≠3↔π⊗ceβ¬∧¬F␈≡↑ ∞aQ]~→$	~8	hd¬ac@!S]J[1SWJA¬Y`∪↔⊗sπS'4∧RεF≤∧h]⎇λ⊂~≠P12P_P897\5ypvλ840zλ40yP_v6εE≥492`% Zetalisp dh∂e[L@Q]←β!β+↔≤∧W>x8	4[<P:`.der @QQP∨O*β;π\XeD≠yH=⎇<\lU+C"AQ@↓AlM),;K&ε$λ&&b4Z,=_<Y∧	+H∀nL8ε66Xw⊂≡)∪iP0zλ&dj⊗Pd[εE⊃0z2]λ→~⊂%_w:py≡P_\\⊂_~
~⊗biUεE#)≠v]⊂)~qt0y→⊂&W⊂∀z0v&≠pw⊂≡∀&iP0]⊂&dj`d←εB*7]⊂_wvvw[⊗v4y\⊂0z∀jV`dCEαE$H0sy2YP;tz~⊂#0t≠6pw⊂_q7zzλ14w2~w3P1[w9z9≥qz9WβE$P;Xw:⊂&⊂fa" H:7P1→P:42H;p|P~z⊂4yK⊂0w2λ&"j⊂≥7P12H:42P≥p|P4]⊂4yVβE0w2λ1ry:_tw6<H77z⊂≥42P9XvrWεBεE yH37y≠zv:4\62P;_v:ryK⊂4s⊂∪"j⊂4\P3:v≠<P2|≥2w22Y⊂:7P→7P;t_zεE)Qj#⊂1Xw⊂27K⊂:42[⊂∀&"U⊂∀∀∀∃ f*bTP P!λ!TP&K{⊗y2]8y74[3Vs'\6TTP↔↔∀FB1pw⊂_2P:yYr⊂:7H92x6_qrP&Kk⊗a$S"⊗⊂%≥yz⊂0\P∀)bU#⊂∀+⊂f*biH P!⊂⊂TP↔↔∀BE1Xw⊂92\60qrH&jf*∩h&"VU f*bTW⊂⊂$H72{2\α use MULTIPLE-VALUES any more
because I think that the SETF style is clearer.

24-Jan-82  0306	Richard M. Stadlman <RMS at MIT-AI>
Date: 24 January 1982 06:02-EST
FRom: Richard M. Stallman <RMS at MIT-AI>
To: common-lisp at↓'*[β$~∀
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λ	αI@PASfA9←hAG∃e`∪πNqβ←#,qβ↔π&C↔Iβ|1βS#*βS←=εs↔]βn∂#'v+Eβ←Nc1βπ∧εε.∂%Dε␈⊂Q*vF.d∞FF*	I↔>λ≠8,=~;Y$∞}<⎇](~0~≤pv3⊂≥tr6⊂≤zx87\8⊂!w[vww∪4yx↔λ⊂)tg_rBE*~2yrP≥492`% eve@9ifACIJA]K¬eYrAαK;∪↔∧+;∪↔w!1βSF+eβ∂|εVf"
↔πε]`λ
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AI>  
Date: Sunday, 24 January 198", 22:23-E@'P~∃
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=Z0↔→β macpπs@7λ∧π.αs⊂*[22y L¬∪_AαK@~ε∀λnL<λ⊂∀[⊂:40]⊂24`2ecti@=\A←D4⊃P≠|¬βD∧⊂∧r might a`→@≤¬rε⊗T	fN≡T
Fzπ<X	%D→[p→λ2|0v\4∧e, one @=H	βSF)β≤pλ
≥]→4MM<|β!∞|8p~→vyWεB∧Eβ¬Y~VR0w⊗\⊂⊂_Z[∧d0[9ww⊂_z⊂)i∩T`dPαg$f⊂_w2⊂"⊃aP+ V⊂!wv[ww⊂&∩ihεE⊃0z2]λ→~P%_w⊂_\N→⊂_J[⊗h)UεA#)≠v]⊂$_w9wgλ0z⊂)T$V`dCE)zq~2qz≥λ'$f⊂_w2⊂"⊃aP+ V⊂!wv[ww⊂&∩ihεE∃7]⊂⊂λ983@_z⊂)jK`dFE_q]⊂⊂λ40w9[wεEεB#y2r]4s3yNεE∧dH:s22\9z0w→⊂397[P i(⊂P:40]⊂""aH+ l⊂⊂wvvw[⊂&4y\⊂6p|H12qg[pP0FB92pv~z<P0[2⊂:4_z⊂<w]P0y2H1v7yYv<P$[;7v;→r↔⊂⊂∩q⊂:4_z⊂4yH:9:rK⊂;rP~w⊂:4→FE)i∩P;4yZww⊂3\7zx⊂≥wzv2λ64urH:7P;[y5P1[7yrv≡P;tz~⊂<wzH4w⊂2→s4w4[3P:4→FE9x→qts$Xpz4w[9P9wH:40zλ:42P≤2yzv≥4w3@≠0s3zXsrP1Xw⊂0q]8pv6≡P12P≥yrr→7yεE≥4ytg[⊂1wf\8z0z~ww9P≥tz4⊂≤2y37\6pw1YP0w2λ1ww;→w4rw_rP1w[x0y0X42P*≠FE v→wv⊗q_yrr⊂≠0s3zXqryWβEd`& this is not trua, per`aps qou can qendma to the peopLe
αI should talk with to make sure the mistakes oF FRANZLISP are not
repeated In COMMON LISP.
	Thanks,  Andy Hanson  859-4395

ps - Where can we get Common Lisp manuals?
-------

∂25-Jan-82  1558	DILL at CMU-20C 	eql => eq?   
Date: 25 Jan 1982 1_57-EST
From: DILD at CMU-20C
Subject: eql => eq?
To: common-lisp at SU-AI

Propoqal: rename the function "eq"in cOmmon lisp tk be something like
"sI:internal-eq-predicate", and the rename "eql" to be "eq".  This would
have sevepad Advantaces.
¬
 * SimplifIcatiOn by reduCing The number ob equality tests&

 * Simplification by reducine the number of different versions of
   various predicates that depend on the type of equality test you
   want.
¬
 * Greater machine iNdependenc@∀A←LA1Sg`AAe←Oe¬[f@Q]QKiQ∃dAKb↓C]HA∃ckCX4∀@@A¬eJAi!JAgC5JAMk9GiS←8AM←d↓mCeS=kfAI¬iCisAKfASLAQKCYSYr@4∀@@A%[aYK5K]iCQS←\[⊃KaK]⊃K]hX↓oQSY∀AKcX↓SfAI∃MS]K⊂Ai↑A	JAeK1CiSm∃Yr@~(@@A[¬GQS]∀[SMI∃aKMI∃]hvA→keiQ∃e[←e∀XAMk9GiS←9fAYS-JA[K5bAS\↓iQJA
keeK9h~)α↓β∂?nk?9βd¬↔>λ≤⊂→≠x7yp[⊂6puYP4z⊂→pyt`%p to use Eq coMparisons Than Eql!.
	
PopπgSE1JAISMCAmC9iCOKLp∩∧~(@TA	<AaK←ββ3∃αdJ.∃βF['≠8¬Bπ≡∨∃Bεw]\&/↔4λ
m≡~λ∩,L;]~,<9λ⊂≠_v:ryH73r_2P2`1?
α   If so, they won't Like This.
λ	α * EffIciency probhems.
α
I don't believ@∀AiQJ↓ISegβ!β∂?oβ3π≥nBbα	_	D∞~→0→→P0q2H70∂ Destructive
`∨@∧+@⊗∂M→vw~LV -9Y0∩λ33y an o@	UKGhαaβ↔E∧∧⊗v"X.\8ε⊂ /uchtth∞AI<AaQJ↓`∂π\QP@.~~0↔→β(4Ph"S#*β@≡8{p↔→⊂1w`-ph	CS9hAgQ=kYHAαs?Qβ⊗)βO'>s'6α8p⊂[8⊂4`. iftep¬aeKβ#↔↓β≤¬v&*AQ'=8π1`% kve@IQKCHαβ?2MvNvtλλ$∞α8	`!α)7β'≥βπS∂@∧π>Nβ≠λ∞∞YxX,-α8P "e insicni@→SGC]P~∃@'p∧ε≡}↑λ↔εO=xD∞z=~¬D≤x>%D→Z0↔→4p∞g↓iQJAβ∪'>∞@λ∞zq0∩↓C]HAα≠π33L¬f 4~8
πβE
In co@5aS@3,∧Bε≡|LRbπL≥6Nvtλ

(≥~-\αP:7H22q`,are @YCe@'∞∪3∃β'KC↔M∧ε6F←]H	∧8ε6 /w
∃i!JAG←αkC'LXD∞≠h⊂↔\2p∞-co`	J@	KbDAαK;C=∧∧⊗&',XnP1w`-pari@M←]fX↓S@→β∂βCK|∧⊂→~pz2VβE2{ %n in↓iQJAαO↔v≠∃β?2β¬β#∞K@↔J8m↑~;⊂∩\α.  A hai@IrAG←αkC'LXD{x
`,d do even
λ¬EKiQKd\~(~∃
Sαsπ33Jaβ'dλ

(_p⊂\p¬ where @M←[K←αs∃β←∞sSMβ,∧f -8z0∩[1x	 @¬hAiQ∀AaeSα≠∃β?0h ↔_8	`4e`
kYαs↔OM∧∧⊗v"
\⊗≡F≥lRnNβY→.8π22[1rV⊂≥42P ,ess @
←]mKαs'.nAP@-9<⊂⊗→vrw:_z4w`.-`	Kaα+;∪↔w!β↔E∧∧6␈.L@λ,(≥4l\α⊂∞
-)--4ZP∀Q!P@ ↓AβY~VR0p∞-`d@@BβAUL&4∧⊗FF\≥bε∂Dλ4m*T λP∧i2N⊂2xvλ≤X∞ @∃b}@~)	CiJh@djA)C\@BβIaI↓α &V+14jA QP→≠v]⊂#_t66p[⊂0z @π∪*ZHaε~∃MkEUKα≠Qiα⊗)aβ↔∞a↓`+dλ	.↔c"U
wH⊃∩)Iλ_=∧λpεjVL_!FE_q]⊂ #ommo@8[YSg@AChAM*Sβ∩4⊃∪@9m∪↔C3JjS=i¬K?WI∧k↔OO∞;∃β?2↓IU6V95a⊂↓EaU8¬T-≥AQ hPβ"R$≠{InD≥~~-mh~5∧∞{⎇;D_Y(∞⎇<y(∞Mh≤Y.
_8q$λ4(∃m≡~λ⊃*→λ≠sD(≥z
⎇→<x-L(_X.≥<kC!){H≠-≤|[p⊃[r2r≠pqt4[2yV⊂≥44yP_pw⊂1→P6pr→P:7P≥tw⊂%≥yz⊂#~w2P0[2⊂:4→P0r2→rεE*_yz2s≥v72y\P4yP≥wy:4λ4z↔  But Aommon Lisp has to Run oN vaxen and such as
well, afdthere the differenc@∀AGC\↓EJAB↓Hπ∂&{Iβ?2βS#K,)1↓αNqβO∂∂#S↔K. 4+W≤)1βSFKEβ←␈+3⊃βv{Qβ*β¬βC⊗{3↔h¬Bε↔↑D∧-
≡πε.≡.2εNd
V∞w∀	⊗vv↑$εf}}∞2pH%QR¬≡=zG H%URjjUUPhPQ `['¬TV∞eSβ∩αεπ∪βλα1_-m9;λ	EH∃y-≥\Y8Dπ→≠∃d=λ∪)~λε`dO⊂∧fk∪2z⊂⊂λ⊂⊂εE⊃0z2]λ*4:y≤r0|Vλ→≤⊂%_w:py≡P_\\⊗⊂_HN→[VbTjεE#≤5v]⊂⊃0s4b[⊂&↔ Uainreb <Dlw at MIT-AI>
SubjEct: MVLet   
To: RPC at SU-AI, cOmmgn-lisp at SU-AI

(1) Would you pleAsa remifdm`
Ao!ChAG=]GYkMS←\A]JAGC5JAi↑↓ChAi!J~¬≥=mK[E∃dA[K∃iSMN|@A≠r↓[CK←IrASf↓iQCh↓iQJA%`∂OW*β←πM∧c↔Q¬+Aβ'pβS#∃∧'H∀T;⊃β&CπQβ&C↔K∃π;πMβvyβ∂?v≠3@/=→vrpQ!PBC%∀∧JπM
⊗vZ∞Mε∂"∞,Vn␈m→f 4≠=;∞M<≠⊃$∞X;∃,↑iλ⊂↔\α reStric@QS]NAQQJA]U[EKd0~∃o←UYHAEoser;
the Lisp-Machine-like alternative has got to be a proposal that has all
three Zetalisp fkrms (not necessarily under Those names, of course).

28-Jan-_2  1∩35	FAhlman at CMU-20A 	Re: MVLet      
Date: 28 Jan 1982  "Tdd[M(~¬
I←ZtA→CQY[¬\AChααε -UR#∧_Q*7.⊗,X7#R
,SB∧ZiF/"∧∧αh*MsR¬*λrε∂D
5*l→⊃PF≡7$ε≡}]]vrnM≡7αε≡@λ
:+02!QR;K*,<≠⊗%Z≠nH≥⎇<@
\αyypYpP7`& 20-Jan-8∩ 0102-EST
λ
∀~)∩ACOIKBAo%iPA	1(
βSFQβ←*β7WO"βC↔S∞K9α5m16"&≥!9↓αJβ;↔[,ε"εn\≥g"πMtε/F=JV&(Q(

=C!↓ P<dY|@⊂∀(#SyH40p∀eqt blast, I agre`
Ao%iPAgα{7¬β|∧bεF≡4ε∂⊗|YV.wN4ε↔∂D	f␈ Q*vO&∧	εO~8ml{_
yZww9Wλ⊂#4i≤z∩⊂$H:44g~β that the p∂CR↓[k@3&KC &T
f∞g\Xd<Y#!0qz:Xv6<P≥yrr, if @QQJA←β3↔K←F+3 .α;Yd
8:Sn4z<P≠q⊂1`!qas, is more l@%P∂*⊃PG⊗↑NW⊗R∞Mε∞r⊂λ@8p∞c@QS←\Aα≠π31p∧α¬N|Tε≡∞MD∧L@U⊃4ID≠x@λi∪stD
|H∀m⎇9#"N↑y<@⊗]y0	dten f@U]GiS=\XAC9HAc←TAW]←β9β←#∂!βKπg+↔MβLεBεO4v}NβY`⊂≥4π retpe\0~∃oQ¬hAKC
PAmC1k@∃βn+π;Mbβπ;⊃¬;#'∂@β?;↔~βg?U¬;π;Q∧εFzπ↑8Rbα	≥bπ&Tε≡∂<Tε}0Q(dd|z!BπN|TεnN⎇∞Bπ≡≥nBπ&Tπ∂.}M⊗.wDλn∧≥~→$∞Y;8-≥Y→4D
|H⊂M}~@∧
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⎇→β!.z;<
L+λ∪
≡|λ∪,≤z~3LT→[tM↑h→z.l(≡;nT_(≤m≥<≠⊂∩H0s2_ww;"[4rw:λ;p|P≥7FE4_w26"H:44iH1wvv[w⊂1`\rW⊂⊂∩pε adufcTion returnq two kften-usEd valuas
plus some otherq that are arcane and hard to reme@5EKdX↓s←jA)kghA
CiGP4∃iQJ↓io↑Ae←jAo¬]hAC9HAYKPAiQJ↓←iQKIb@AQ=oKmKHA[C]dAiQKIJACe∀RAKm¬a←eCQJ\
∃4[,[→%'(ASLACmC%YCEY∀Ai↑AAe←Oe¬[f@QQeCGKIbAM←HAKqC5aQJR↓iQChαβ←π;"βS<4TK;S↔⊗≠↔CQε31β&C∃β[∞cW/5Dεvz
\↔'ε↑$π>F≤E`hPβ"R≡Z;Yd∞x:9∧∞~_=¬D∩(⊂,↑Y9(∞M_=∞M→<Y$<Y(≥≤{h∞={9(<<y4d∞z→4LT≡;⎇$∞x;]↓Q]~→$x=_m
;Y`⊂≠s⊂;0[:ryP≥5P12H6sy2H64urH0P3:[1z4w[⊂1pv≠⊂:40[⊂0P 2eturn,
since it may be somewhat unpredictable what is going to be bubbling up
from below, and the laebda list with optionals and restq has evoLved as
a eood way to handle this.  I submit that↓iQJA
CkgJ↓←LAk9SMOe5SirA%f~∃E∃ghAg∃emKH↓ErAC
ikCY1rA[C-S]NAQQKgJ↓GCgKLAEJA→k]Gi%←\AG¬YYfX↓eCiQ∃d~¬i!C\AM¬WSMN↓Sh\@↓)QJAAe←a←MKHA~5,[πβ1_A[K
QCMSMZAI←∃bAKq¬GiYr↓iQSf↓oQK\4∃OSm∃\A←]∀AmCYUJ[eKQke]S9J@ECIOk[K9hD\@↓)QJAAe←a←MCXAi<AYKh↓~[,[
β→_~)iCWJ↓[←eJ↓iQC\↓←]J@	CeOk5K]hDαβ∪?Kjβ'Mβ&;∨↔⊗{WM⊃∧¬⊗rε←∀π6N↑tαjJ
~Bε≡}]F h,\↔∞NO∀εf.≤@π&z
→Wε.lX
∞0q6 % afduneaintainable code -) but if it makas
JkhnMcCarthq @!Caar0A∩OZαβ←'3d¬⊗v:∞Mrεf\≡f*ε≡@εNrD∞ε/⊗≡π4≥z0~~⊂0P 7ar`≥Sαs≤4&yβGO,ε'4≠[p~λ87P 'o of@∃`|≡&"π⎇_

∧≥~~.∃βαEεBαSo I phiNhεA%!≤AQCf↓[CIJ↓BAgiI←]NAα≠πO∃∧∧f␈∩
lV.&≥lrπ≡⎇\W&F≥lrεF≥<PhTUZbl≤→IBbε≥lB∧J∞λM}≠xp∩H840zλ&Vk⊗PβALL itse@1H	β'~βS#∃∧∪↔OQ∧∧f␈⊗β(⊂∪≠y⊂:4~yP∞
I am↓[kGPαβ3↔O~β∂?;4K;∂↔ ∧ε↔J

↔4_8	3]vrw:λ840zλ842P≠zpdiph	JAβ3π3W*αN⊗R∞K;≤4T∧⊗v"λ)∀`(α4w3H30∂rmpεAQCYJAi↑↓EJAE∃CiK\αβ';SzβS#'~β@≡∞β9(∞t0p⊂@∀AWdAβ##K|⎇bε←↑AP@,8ε27Yp¬ther.  Simpl@∀AM@?⊗k@~εmxD∞z;<
L(≥~
≥Y|h!Q@εE [2⊂2`6en i@_A%!∞α;@~ε≤XnM→:0~_P52`$e`@7,¬g"π|XLT≥≠h∞∞Y=P⊂Zv⊂ I p∂←kαc⊃βO&K3  Q(
≡Y(⊂~~2P8 2ob`→KαiβC#∂!1β,∧6∂/<Tπ&F←∀εF∂lTπ&FTλl]8;]
≤|h⊂↔Yα P@%=∂⊂≠M∧∧⊗v"
mw @ ¬7`& functi`∨\αβ∂πMHeD≥~→$	_;8LL+;⊂∀\βt v@∃`O'|s@~ε|dπ&F↑8	$];XnM8πw9H9wz`,d be
λextremel@dAaCSαs⊂↔8ε⊂ 4o imple`≠KαsQ8Q!P@(<h∩$∞y9(
≡λε⊂ )d∧A%!≤A`∨πw#@~πMtεF∂lTε
∧β_;,,_+8M≥Y~0↔→β fo@IZAM←β⊃βKπdεV(hαXp.Lz~0↔→β(λA~αjY6∞b1β∨Lεf/~∞MεO~∞MrεF≥Pλ
≥H_ ⊂≥p|P 4hat @%`
β∂d∧V∞r≥f"ε\≡6Ng⊃Q&No
H	-\αp∞tabh	J\α↓α'→∧εvF∂Dλ
T≥x;NNh~0→H''j≥5P40]2P:4→P9t`-ph	JA1Sg`A5CGQSαs∀46{C /4	⊗v≡LXF.αβλ⊂⊂[2⊂:7H30∂rce ev@∃`gSFK;≥β&CC/W>Aα3πn∪∪¬7d¬↔>λ→Sn
αyP )n the
fame of unafOp¬S@''I1βSF+9β←*β#π[*β¬βK,1βC⊗{#↔h¬`hPβ"K%T∀xp↔]8εE⊗KVVVVKFEεEβ∧π28-Jaf-`d@@bPb`_~-⊗≡F≤∧Y∧	+H∀nL8ε6&Xw⊂⊗ 2ms at MIT-AI6 	Macro exp@¬]gS←8AgkO≥KgiSα{;MhR∪πS+Q↓IA∧Sπ;W∂∪e↓EKAI↓E9QEM⊗-~P$(hM⎇,H∀M≤z_<LD⊃+@⊂∀z0v ,maf <phfAαQα⊗M!6ε%ph ∃∨\-&.∨G$∧n∞>-rε/∞λλ-nz;sD∞⎇9yl↑⎇~0↔[9FE*≠]⊂1`/mm`∨\5YSg`↓ChA≥)6ε$hP4*'2↓#≠C|ε6O&≥xD∧iy0_]pp @`RAS@~β∪↔≠L¬f.λ≤p↔H840zλ9t2`. i`≤Aα3W;∂&K?9β∧¬w==~0↔[∧¬αi@P@EKqAC]IFλAa↑Aα	β≠Wv≠S'⎇`∧∞~→0↔λ∀6px_py⊂∀→αpocItignX	99JIβ#?≤∧W1"X<d	SsS∧∞x:0→K⊂12`4 (mapcar #'(fp@=`∂'SL¬vrαeabJ@KK@∀H1pw perhaps be
`≠C⊃JAi↑↓oS@9p∧α∧Nd¬ε'∞βXp~~ww⊂∀→87qd]4p∂n∞,.)) expands itpπ@↔∪2β';Sxh!#≠,s∂S'|q↓#3∞k∪¬αCπK≥∧C≥9pq%↓¬gε←=_

≥{HEeJ(⊂.,h_<LUKKB%∃!"P∀]⊂;tf≠⊂27P≥42P)~st:⊂≥44w3K⊂⊂*4→P7w6≡P897X42v@ is to deterhS]∀~∃@#⎇9β'πwIβπK?→βπK*β;↔↔&+⊃1β>C'∂!∧≠?W3 β∃βλ∧ππ⊗|λWππ∀λlD≥~→$∞};8M⎇β"QN
|z5
≥{Kλ
}H_p↔]v2⊂ !ppear somewhere in Its ded¬SMSβ#'?9ph $
∞cS↔KvS'[,¬GJ@λ≥~T→→0∪~w0z4[w⊂7`& fpo@MSiS←8AG←k1HAQCYJAio<@E←@∧+@⊗∂M_mnhC"LL9Z0↔→r≥⊂ /ne to expAnd when given an ordinary f`∨e4AgSi @QMaα{@≡OM_md	KCE⊃ ¬0yH4z9P→8¬`≥Gβ#'?9bβπ;⊃∧¬vv*∞Mrε/∞λ⊗v"∞⎇ε.r⎇↔6.dλ⊗rε←∞π⊗/>8
-⎇H≥≠d<≤⊂⊗≡F@
(fpksi@QS←\@8X	9%∧εFzPβ"C!β∧π28
Ja`≤ZβAI↓↓α∪∪→
w>∂,@λ	∃β⊂!`!njgny⊃&~βπQαlJQ66≠q&7∞≠@⊗@h→0≤≤0s9t[w⊂9jYpπes@QS←]f@@@~)	CiJh@d`A)C]kCIr@br`d@brhhl[M(∩¬
β∪?5I∧C?←π⊗!α%9∧≠π;≠|¬bβdα∩0d=λ∪)~λεfaO∧¬
SubjecT8∧@A≠¬GeNAα+cCπw≠'?9¬≠W>|Z7&N⎇n0hUMw"ε≡⎇]V}r]M↔>λ_=∧
u+0)⊃ C"AQR(∩≡Y(≤l]]λ⊂~~2P3 /lhowing to GDS as apropOpπCXA1C[EI∧A≠CGI←fAS8AM←d4∃π←[5←\A→%c`L@↓∪hASLAS[a1K[K]QKHA←8AiQJ↓→Sg`↓≠CGQ%]JXA¬]HASLAS]gQCYYK⊂~∃S\↓'s[E=YSGf↓gsgi∃Z@d`H@Qk]IKYKCMKHRX↓C]HA]SYXAAe←EC	YrAE∀AS\A5∪(~∃MsgiK4@nr\4∀~∃3=jAG←UYHAK¬gSIr↓kgJAQQKZAQ↑AS[AYK[K9hAMk9GiS←9CXAaI←OeC5[S]N↓gisY∀X~∃C9HAiQ∃rA←L↓G←keMJAo←IVAoSQP@FN↓CfA%5&Agk≥OKgiL\~∀~))QJAQKqhA%fAS\↓¬←YS<AS]aUhAM←I[ChX↓g←eed\~∀~(ZZZZ4ZZZ~(~∀]g∃GiS←8A→C[	IBA[¬Ge←f4∀~∃→¬[EIB↓[CGe=fA[CdACaa∃CdAS8AMk]
iS←]LAoQKIJA→β5¬	αA]←kYH↓QCmJ↓aeKm%←kgYd~∃CaAKCeK⊂\@A/!K\Ai!JAG←5aSYKHA←dA%]iKeAeKiKHAIKi∃GifA∧AMk]
iS←\↓oQ←g∀Aπβ$4∃SfA∧AYC[	IBA[¬Ge↑X↓iQKrEKqa¬]HDAQQJA[¬Ge↑A%\A[k
PAiQ∀AgC[∀AoCr↓iQCh4∃←eI%]Cer↓→Sg`↓[CGe=fACe∀AKqa¬]IKHZZAi!JAYC5EIBAαkπ∂Kzβ'Mβ≡33↔ β←'SBβS#∀hS≠@.l8

≥{H_.4~=≤d<Y⎇-\9]∧9Y
≡h→6∞8⎇→,D≥≠h∞,=≥0→≠⊂0w7]42y⊂→8w1j~ww⊂0\FE4z≤P;0v≥p¬.  Laebda macpks may be accEpπgKHαβ←'S@βS#∃α@⊂∪≠-L⊗n⊗L⊃Vn∞>-p"PQ c⊗v≥\P"R∀λ	N]X⎇~-⎇H≤|\z9R,↑KC"AQKY→,N|→0d
α0vq→0VvpX.lisp
(lambda-macro ilisp (x)
  `(lambda (&optional ,@(second x) &rest ignore) . ,(cddr x)))
.end←lisp

would define a lambda macro called ε3ilispε* which would cause the
function to accept arguments like a standard Interlisp function -- all
arguments are optional, and extra arguments are ignored.  A typical call
would be:

.lisp
(fun-with-fUnctional-arg #'(ilisp (x y r) (hist x y z)))
.end←lisp
~∃QQK\X↓C]rA
CYYf↓iVAi!JAMk9GiS←9CXACIOk[K9hAiQ¬h~(3≠≠W→o;'S!n3W;∂&K?;πbkπK≤2Qβ↔c,≠WS↔~β←'∪bβCπO~βπK∨,k↔;S~βπMβN1βS#(h++Wn∪↔Iβ|1βπK?+7↔nN2ε&≤Dεv␈D
V∂'L↑"`h%lVv%|LV7∨\0hPQ%f&.n>ε.~LV6F≥\&&
]\⊗∨⊗qQ #≡LXff∞β8Y∃8εpq\4πε* is like ε3defmacroε*, bu@PAIKMαK;↔Mε	β#πn∪∪¬βn∂K<hS';O&+π"
xbε

mwε@8;λ
\8|[eaαE↔2[2/r2Y9x2aCE
.defspec ded¬P∪πn∪∪¬7n∂Ku\FO∨
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-------

∂29-Jan-82  1146	Guy.Steele at CMU-10A 	MACSYMA timing   
Date: 29 January 1982 1442-EST (Friday)
From: Guy.Steele at CMU-10A
To: George J. Carrette <GJC at MIT-MC> 
Subject:  MACSYMA timing
CC: common-lisp at SU-AI
In-Reply-To:  George J. Carrette's message of 29 Jan 82 13:30-EST
Message-Id: <29Jan82 144201 GS70@CMU-10A>

Wall, I undersTand your Reluctance tk release timings before the
implementation has been properly Tuned; buton the other hand,
looking at the qituAtionin an absTpact sort ob way, I don't ufderstand
why someone willing to shoOt ofF his mouth and tace unsupported pot
shots in a given forumqhould be unwillingto provide in that same
fkruM some objective data that might heLp to douse the fhames  and
this goes for people on both sides oF the fenc@∀RT@A%\AgQ=ahHA$A[Ke∃Yr~∃5KC]h↓iP≥β∨+∨∂↔≥!β¬β>eβSzβCK?6)βS#∂!βS#*βO=7≤∧⊗fF\@ε⊗∞MO⊗F}t
v∂_Q*v␈↔M∞vFNLTαFV}Dπ&F≡@λ∞M~<h
≡h≥~T≠{[∂∀≥x>$∞≠h⊂_≤7{2P~z⊂WεB⊗Vcz↑FEεEβπY≤VR0w⊗\⊂⊂_Y~∧cz↑W)z2Yv2P0]⊂!fjKXX Pαi2]⊂→xv⊂≡O⊂2x←H⊂⊂εE⊃0z2]λ→≤P%_w:py≡P_\\⊂_Z~L⊗bijλ∀#94Y0|TFB#97vN⊂#zlK)z2r[2P0zλ!fjVLX FE∃7]⊂$⊃b)$aRP0r∀*j#bT)P∀&[3y⊂"⊃aRP∩0's'Dip DCSR Comp Facility)
Subject8  Re8 eql =6 eq?
CA: c@=[[←\5YSg`↓ChA'T[β∩~)∪\[%∃aYr[Q↑t@A!	%∪
↔↓%+Q∂%&≥fA[KMgCOJ↓←L@ddA∃C\pd@bLtjh[∃'(~∃5KggC≥J[∪Hh@pds)C\pdb`jdPfA∂&\a↓π≠TZbaαx~∀
∀!	
+8A
∨≡Q0R~(@@Q'∃)"A¬%∞[→∪M(@Qπ=≥&A0↓↓∪∞[1∪'(R$~∀@@!')"↓'≠β→0[→∪'P@Qπ∨9&A0AM≠β→_5→∪'($R~∧@Q!%∪9(@QD@QπβHA¬∪∞5→∪'($@QπβHA'≠β1_[→∪M(RRR$~∀
∀!	
8A¬β$Q4R@!
∨≡@ THA4d\`R$R~∀~)π←[a%YJAi!SfAkMS]NAQQJA≠¬G⊃∪'@AG←[ASYKd8@A)Q∃\@Q¬¬$@f\@RAeKαc'πeH4+C⊗K;SM∧r&!DλM}λ∃βD∧∃~→$∞Y8<m⎇H~0→H:40zλ:42P_wvx4[2r⊂ #o`e For FOM
gets$ @¬bASiLACeOU[C@; αa1βλβC∪1∧sW7,ε"πε≤8l\λ≥≠d
=λ⊂⊃≡P! iα  The co@⊃J~∃M=`	α~|yβ#π∧εε.w4
Fzε=
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8<λ=|~1.P7s⊂⊗⊗εE)_z42`2 than one, a`≥Hαβ@≡z∞Mε*ε<≡'4≠yH∞M→(∃∞⎇h≠∩.z9P 7ill @
←]iC%\∩+&KGS'v≠QβC|K;C↔↔→0$	h¬T?/⊃Q hP`@lN+),9K ≤⊂⊂⊂@225↓George J. C@¬`K↔'#∃↓r<R~ε≤@λ	Y53(7Hα3(_tpfPP:4fZw3FE⊃0z2]λ→_	 January 1982 15:23 ≠M(⊂∀(hM⎇,H⊃l]|Yy$	KH⊂l≡\Y0~≥2P⊂≤GJC at MIT
MC>
Subj@∃Ght@↓≠βπ≥J6¬β&K7'lqPE&w$∧?/∃j7&.]H	$=λ⊂iZ+( _⊂F@
c@p	β∂|¬Vn}e]FO∨∧λλ.D∀q+(→ εEεBαA`→X↓∩AgC%HAoCLAaQCPA≠CGβ≠g7¬∧εv∂~∞.Vv@X;YeD_;Y∧	(→P∩[8∧ I had @Q↑~¬I<AaQCPAEKGαWO∃∧¬V∞w∀λ]|≠⊂∩H847`5dπQhAβ##πQ∧r& "∞|↔4≠[p~λ0P;w\αking
`→C9KkCO∀X	α∀λ	l↑λ_;
D≤{p→≥9P7`& hec@-YS@;8∧ε .Xπv@ car`)¬S\Aaα+?C3*βπ;g>e  Q(mt_(⊂∪→{P2`8tra @U]gkaββ?KS,∧Bπε|¬.t7r9H0y2`.'t going @Q↑AE←β##↔I∧¬V*pβ"P-N{kλ	∀~_=LT≠~3-≡→9⊂≥4p
e nkw @Q↑AG←αkC &↑LRε
∞λ↔ε/$λmd≥~→$∞~;:-lc"P∪~qzy2\β that BM↓oC]iLASJAβ#=βO,∪7'Q∧εFzπMRε≡⎇lf/⊗]l6*ε⎇`εfO>↓PF∞βY⊂_x86 )cabl@∀AQC]≥kCOKLXAiC-S]NAAYCGJ↓ChAπ5*AeS≥Qh}AM↑As←T~∃OKPAiQJ↓aSGiUeJ\~(~∃¬Kβ!1α≡X¬B∧J⎇H∧z=Y$∞≥{h∞M9:0↔→P34`'ures, VAX-780 Speedin % ob KL-10.
λ	αC@=[aSYαK;≥↓∀ij6εDJ%nh∧⊂**q(∂D⊂⊂⊂~∞⊂P7`& KD-D`\4TJ2R⊗=∩εB∃A	0~E	b2k
∃KαJα∧∧ααα∧∧β∩T	v $⊂s&⊗λπεEβE'q;~wzyf≡P:42H1wvx~v2y~yP:4→P6w`3t-usEd proeram↓S\A≥%_XAg<AShAαCπMβ⊗+↔9β'+;↔⊃ph*7π≥≠g7¬∧CπMβv{Qβ,+9βS,s↔⊃aQ hTmx
T≥y3
Eλ∩(∞≤>(λI\8|v-\(~_.P77`4 beeN puned" not "NIL has ngd↓EKK\↓i`↔≠,!9λ∀U;#e]∧∪↔∂π,ε6*∧i→BεF≡4ε⊗.]`π'9Y0∩⊂67j≤β of desi@≥\AiQ=k@∨#"βeβn;eβ∧+?C3*`4+πv!β3?'→β/→¬;?K
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∃QQJA→%'!~A⊃SI\OPA]KK⊂AgaK
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F&	14jA ¬# 2om2 HEDRICK ad↓%+)∂∃%&@Q5]OdA⊃ε@5α&α?~xM↔α∧β⊂tj$⊂{{.∧⊃X8m≥~=≡%⊃ T⎇,-Y8⎇π∧∀Y.D∧∀Y.D<;λπWH→4'q"U≠g∧⊃y6%j⎇→9-L(_=∧λq5+&⊗⊂#"L<nH⊂m⎇;;p↔v4yxλ0z⊂)UV`dFB$p∞-Reply-To: Your @5KggC≥JA←Ldr[∃¬\Zpdb`jd5'(~(~∃∩A
CYXAQQChA∧AEkN8~∀ZZ4ZZZZ4⊂~∀_⊂≥IJj+π9kAI↓↓→MH&D*∩J&≤YβπQ¬∩VR≡-∩M↓"ns∨Iα$*¬%Iα;M>∪M⊃α2∞≥⊃α∂?o↓α≠π≡K3'SJI&K+Q↓αK+Qβ↔Gb↓uyβ-	⎇↓hR∪πS+Q↓Ie∧Sπ9↓IaI↓	1I]6-~P4*5∪?5i∧B⊗∩JL~-βπ αJVR<*JM↓Dk;∨I∧"⊗
5∪↓∨M>&KIα2≥~Iα∂}kAα≠∞≠'3''I$4*∨++↔∨!iαK+Q↓αK+Qβ↔Gb↓uyβ/	|4*&yiα∨/I:OS.+3∃β∂!α∞6*iEB∧hS∂
iε≠?77|q73'∨↓βπQ¬~U6εHh*'→m∪↔C3JjS=i¬K?WI∧k↔OO∞;∃β?2↓Ie6V95a∩↓EQU∩j⊗NPhP4*%π≠↔↔5π#=βK.≠π31π##πQεKQβ←∂→β¬β⊗O'
πβK?C/∪Seβ}1α3'∨↓βS#∂ 4)↓αB⊗EαB↓"∞ε∩↓"∞>u→αaαJI%$4TK→βg␈+Iβ∂}kC'3/⊃β∂?oβ'3↔~β∂?∪*βS#π β∪?↔~β;?QπβK↔O/∪[∃β&C'Mβπ∪?C↔↔#e04W##∃β↑K;∪↔∨!βS#Ns≥α%εCπ[∃π#=βO∂Iβ'Mπ##πQεKQβ'~βCK↔nSWK*β?CSNk'kπ&K?98hQ555ji544Ph(To: HEDRICK at RUTGERS (Mngr DEC-20's/Dir LCSR Comp Facility)
Subject:  Re: Re: eql => eQ?
CC: common-lisp at SU-AI
In-Reply-To:  HEDRICK@RUTGERS's messace od 29 Jan 82 16:20-EST
Message-Id: <29Jan82 16302⊂ CS'0@CMU-10A>

αWelh, it is at least a misfeatu@IJAiQ¬hA'Q"AC]⊂AQC[	IB[E%]IS]≤~∃I↑↓]←hAAeKgKβ∪[∃α-	7;↔∨→9↓αO!β'MπβK↔∂O≠↔3e∧∧f␈∩∞MεO~∞,V∂≡⎇dπ&F≤APW&Tππ⊗\M⊗≡∂LT∧-D∞v∂~∞
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1* What is that hard to implement About the MVlet thing that is not
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However, MACROEXPAND inows nothing about this format, which iq probably
why the compiler Can'thandle it; alco such action iSn't documented
afywhere.
 
Thus I believe it to be merely an accidental co-iNcidence that the
interpreter does anything at all meaningful with this format.  My
"seCond suggestion" now is to institutionalize this "accident"; it
certainly Would make it easier to experiment @]SiPA∧AagKUI↑[MU]GiS=]CX~)ae←OIC[[S9NAgieYJXA¬]HASPA←Em%←kgYdAQCgαq∨Qβ⊗+↔9β/≠↔⊃β6{IβπwIβ?SF+H4+n+π;'v984(hP0-A
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Date: 1 February 1982 20:13-EST
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λ	α∂02-Feb-82  0002↓Guy.Steele at CMU-10A 	The right way    
Date:  1 February 1982 1650-EST (Monday)
From: Guy.Steele at CMU-10A
To: HIC at MIT-AI
Subject:  The right way
CC: commoN-lisp at SU-AI
If-Reply-To:  HIC@SCRC-TENEX's message of 1 Feb 82 11:38-EST
Message-Id: <01Feb82 165054 GS70@CMU-10A>

I think I take slight exception at the remark

    Of course, Lambda Macros are the right way to experiment with the
    functional programmifg style...

It may be a right way, but surely not the only one.  It seems to me
that actually using functions (rather Than macros) also leads to a
Functional programmiNe style.  Laebda macrks may be faster in some
implementations for some puRposes.  HoweveR, they do not fulfiLl all
puRposes (as has already been noTed: (MAPCAR (FPOSITION ...) ..,)).

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λjgbmal areueeNt lists!.A∩AI=\OhAβ##'≠X∧∧∞}]]vr∧M≡7αεlX	,Nh≤u,.⎇β"L≡h_;M}~→4D∞x:(
|β⊂22Y4s4`.e macp¬Wf\α↓α'≠d¬⊗v*h
-l⎇~3mnh_<LUβ"R
}y=Q.¬λ≥4l\];AQ@εEβ∧π04-Feb-82  1513	J@=\AλA]QSiJy∃∨≥0AChA5∪(K≠|@∩E∃qGKaQS←]fλAa←gMSEYr↓ECgK⊂A←\A5SgG←9GKai%←\vA¬]HAYβ_AgQaSWKLACOC%\@@~)	CiJh@hA
∃EekCIr@br`d@bph`h[M(~¬
I←ZtA)←\A_↓/QSi∀@y∃∨9_AChαα6&Qlj
x4U≠W+.≠Qi↓⊗+c∂↔¬#'?;~⊃βC?∨≠'3JβπO.!β?9εk'O∂}s∂↔C&K?9mε;⊃α-2ε1β∨#C'/-→βπ∨∞K84*&yiα#L∧2ε∂D
4≥∀5ZD,tY↓B∧?←∃e∨&\XT_9λ95+,&λ#"Pl7H_sm];{K-M<|λ≡λ∀u%X2#"AQA"U
(≤y.l<X;∧∧Y>_l↑≥~3mnhH~N↑⎇λ≥≥y;@≤[⎇=∧
;<≠]9;]
≥Yh→N]X⎇~-⎇X;λ∞∞[y|L≥9:3Ltβ"[,∨(_Y$
;H≤≡]λ→∞\(≥≠d(≠:.<{{Xl↑≥~;md≥_:l]H→P→≠vP)&TSyP9→vpy5CEαE⊂λ⊂⊂"0]2]⊂→∞P%0w≥py<P\\→⊂\]~≠bijεB⊂⊂⊂⊂⊃97v]λ)4qt_y2⊂&K⊂)z0[66pwλ≡)&iH0z⊂&Rj∩`dOεE⊂⊂λ⊂)zq~2qz≥λ*9<t[3P:7H4vx6→vrw:λ#('iRj 	ON with LAMBDA-MACROs.
    . . . 
    The idea of FPOSITION is that ((FPOSITIONX Y) MKRE ARGS)
    expands Into (FPOSITION-INTERNAL X Y MORA ARGS), and . . . 
    In JOJL's suggestion, the expander forFPOSITIONoperates On the
    entire f@=aZAS8AoQS
PAiQ∀AGCY0Ai↑AQQJA
A∨'∪)%≠≤[Y%ghACAaKCeLXA]←P~∀@@AUkgPAi↑AQQJA
A∨'∪)%≠≤[Y%gh\~(~∃)Q%fASg8OhAe%OQh@4ZAS\↓[rAgUOGKgQS←\X↓iQJA∃qaC]⊃KdAM=dA
!='∪)∪=_Ao←UYH@~)←aKe¬iJA←9YrA←αq↓"~∧zN&RLz9αa¬I%1β>C'∂!αS∂?Wd!)βSF+9βC⊗{∪W∂*βO?7-##'≠8∧εfN<ThR	X∀≥∀t¬bβ@_;[nM→<C,n;OB'P0w2λ4z⊂ 7ouldbe  <angther-fUn:  Whichwould get 
the "entire Fore @%\AoQ%GPAi!JAGC1XAi↑↓iQJA→!∨'∪Q∪⊂≡→nc'OQ∧∧↔πε\≡'
⊂Q!PDDα0h
≡h_p∩\8∧aiNly jUstif@%KHAS8AgCSαK;≥β&CπQβ≡{7/M
⊗v:
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∞MrεnT¬ε∞vD	V∂N,T∧?/∃∀π&F≤@λ
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aWf@4⊃`∨↔⊗)β←K}s≥ 2∧	ε␈>↑hWαb∞MεO~∞8
,L+9~.l<\p∀[w⊂4`.tk amisc@=]GKaβ#'?9εCπMβ&+SKπ≥#↔⊃hS∪K?jβS#∃εkπ'→πβπKQ∧¬v"ε←∀α⊗6≡.7"π>Xv><⎇~-⎇HKλ
l8εr`,y to dix @QQJA[%g@∪↔≤K↔9βL¬bh(Zdb∞⎇ε/⊗\/∩εODλ

}_;∪∂∀→=X-N8=→.P0P'≠w⊗pz≠vtqP→8s1`4ion position bedkre tryiNg
any macph∞KKβCCπ≠≡K?99h  ($∧αα∧L≡F+R∧⊂λλl8\],≡↑('↔HFπL,k(Zuβ"D∧λλ⊃N
βvU⊂∩4πward @∩\αα≡∞β[[md∂∩∩(P0p∀↓≠∪([5α|
∀@@A≤εV⊗V\8
π⊂⊂"4→P94`'hpλAo¬r~)α↓↓αS{Qα?←∃e∨&\XT_8
 @π⊂⊗Uhε∪∧λβ"H∧∧λ@⊂α  ≤@4⊂	↓↓αα'2Dλ

}y=P∩\α, we do @¬GGKaβ!↓"H→T(α P↔α.) @¬`
β¬∧εf∞f≤@λ@4πrm↓iQC@ ∧π<αpf-eval@UCiKf~∀@@@Q←@⊂∧π>F≤¬→.l<J+∧∞~→0↔λ$P6tYβht @A`/C|ε6*ε=⊗v>≥lrε@_;8LL(≠8,>Xπp∪ th∞AE∀AGCYαc↔4R↓↓↓βL¬bε@Xπp∩mal f@U]GiSα{;πDλ
}z9~-⎇Kλ⊂↔\α j`+MhAO↑↓iP≥β&C∃βO≤¬ε.nTλl@⊂77`4 λ
)α↓↓β∪Lε7&NβY⎇-≡z~0↔→β be@Qo@↔↔p∧εf∞β8Y∀_;Y∧∞Y9⎇-L<H⊂⊗Xqy7`3,∧⊂∀!Q%≡z

w:ε≤-w/"
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πtλ⊂	2Yβardless @=H	βSF)β &≥\&&
]\⊗∨⊗βh⊂_]p¬stion, @=`	βSF)βOSβ_Q ¬7`& functi`∨]¬XAae=H∂Kπnk';≥bβ3↔Q∧*P∀Dλ
≥y#"AQHλ묬⊂ε`∃M@¬→
@8X	9%∧	E↓e`Dλ,J(∧
8π:7H⊂0∀,(hCGβ∪?/∞λλ-lλ	`∀∪h¬MBLE  ≤\αq%%αλε∩αre`λλ⊗J#"AQX;Y∧∞α94P~z9P #ycle a`∂CSαq0∩α	xMO(_9NL<H

\8|[l←≤_;LD	j∪*Yαa&"H↔↔↔)) fails to
prodpGJ↓`∂?7,εFFNβY`⊂→4yq`%p¬P≠≤-GJε∀λ	N]X⎇~-⎇H≥{n]→λ⊂~~2P72Yαari@=kf@E∃mC@3αX↔&N⎇`λAQX{p⊗YP:x⊂→αh∂dAα≠?;OL∧F/⊗≤M⊗}raQ hUαpλ↔∀Tε -
 phi@LASg\α;QβSF)β?3 ∧αE≥H~E-~λ
T`*λ∧P 1u`gi%←\@Z4AiQCPAW]YβIβπC∧¬FN∞Dλ

q H⊂∪≠y0
s whicH had0AMe←4AiQJ↓EKOS9]S@;8¬Bε∞βH⊂.M{:0⊃Kpεunctign↓aWgSβ#'?9uh4(Q `@lλ
εQ2q⊗@82  "@hn∪⊃=oCeH↓∩P→α≤;+∨p∧βdDα0h≡λ∪2*E30oD↓(Y0≤_p¬ptions"↓aP∨O≤K#E∧∧&∂≡\@λ
⎇H≠:.qww1Yx:4`/n; and EFAL strikes a`∂CSαq↓↓hR∪πS+Q↓Qα4∧V↔↔\≡'Jβ↔↔β∩β&7##*XZ5 @ ¬# 2om2 Howard I. Can`≥←αq↓bαL→βπQ∧j&AYX3p@"T⎇,-Y8p~∞α  "excep@QS←]fλAa←@∨≠'M∀ε⊗∂<X	∧
{H∪-≡x{p↔_p¬ption; And EVAH s@Q`'<Xd9x:-a ¬*7N⊂ 
ONL ad↓≠∪([5α~∃Gα→`∩ε=x-]{K;
≡|λ⊂.D∀q+(→+λ⊃n← how about it?  Regardless of the lambda-macro question, or the style
    of functional programming, let EVAL take

       ((MUMBLE ...) A1 ... A2)  into  `(,(macroexpand '(MUMBLE ...)) A1 ... A2)

Since, in my first note, I said "If, however, we do accept (LAMBDA ...) as a
valid form that...", and we aren't, I am strenuously against this suggestion.

∂05-Feb-82  0022	Earl A. Killian <EAK at MIT-MC> 	SUBST vs IJLINE, consistent @
←[aSαcπS'}q↓↓hR∪πS+Q↓Mα4+KW∂∪e↓EKAI↓EKQIA6-~P4*7∪?5i∧+πK⊃∧	9α/L¬FfN≥dβd→0λ≡λ∪2*E30oAQT⎇0M,8⎇∞D∧∀q0J:λ≥\d	3S∩)HαV⊂ #onsi@MiK]h↓G←[a%YCiSα{8$
&yaα\≡6NwLZ"ε∂D
∧
∀5YT
D1Q&≡≠$λ6}n]xEY~<t∧=λ∀jUα`dFB∧¬∃∪αqα∂?nk?9αdK@∨α∞Mε*ε\≤7ε@h→→,@4p∞i@QS←\Aα{⊂∩¬8¬p*∧≥{u-Lλ_Y$∞~→(∞pp
e ob¬
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β@≥zWα¬8¬0J:	λ⊂∩↑1rx 4 f`∨dαβ@≡}\Tε≡}]\↔4λ∧4W→Tε dedhCGβ∪=β#∞s∪ &↑1P@-β3p∩mal areu`≠KαsQβ3Lε7'~α+@⊂λ$P27[⊃z⊂ 4hi`≥Vαα≡}]]vr∧M~7αεlX	,Nh≤p~X9zεE_yP0w≠z42`2 p∂C@Jβ?2LV -8π4`.dεA[C
aP∨Mp∧α∧Nβ[⊂∀[2P3 5nctiOns are(
HowevEp∧XAkβ≠↔≠Wbp4(Q `@l	+(l8K&ε$λ@→
≠Dc0Z66pwλ0z⊂!SjVY0A 	Maclisp compatibility    
Date:  6 Feb 1dpd@@Dhb[M(∩¬
I←ZtA→CQY[¬\AChααε&Ui⊃B4U≠W+,≠Qiαn∂3'∨↓β∂?oβπS'⊗K3'SHh*S=Rβ∂?7n{973M≠Aβπ ∧¬≥*X→⊂hPβ"C!	(≥{n]→λ⊂⊗~urP*≠P9r`#ond RMS's views about Eaclisp compatibiLity: there are
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Ai!C\AO=←@L@↓CeYdASLAβ##∃β,∧f&←.@π&FTλ	M⎇≠≠p≠Zw3FE→p¬fe@ICXAaβ∪';∂Mβ3↔M¬;↔K∃∧∧⊗ >Y90∩λ8x7gλ1<P 4hkse working o@8Aπ←[5←\A→%`∂Aβ∂ 4+SF)βS'n)` (!Q#
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;]→-lλ≥≠d
8π{ % oveR much code afdmany users from the Macliqp
World.  The easier we make that pacK, the better iT is for all of us&

3. Ib poqsible, cOnsistent @]SiPAA←S]iL@bAC9H@dX↓oJAg!←kYH↓]←hA⊃↑~∃C9siQS9H
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∧_{p→≤αesp@=]IS]≥YrAYα+@∨~]WεF≡8
.∃Hλ∩!Q]~~-mh≥~≡λ∪∩.x⊂_G
P9t7]v2⊂ 'et no speCiad @QaKCi5K]hAαC↔K∃Rβπ31∧{⊃β''_4+≥↑ε␈↔L≥g"εlXλ.Nαy2iH9t7kH8¬p @%\A7∞≠3'Oαaβπl@λ∞M→(⊂↔[2yP*~0z⊂ (ave @
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<{y≥↓QK+ ⊗KTVVFBα	αλ∞`@2j≠↔	hπβ∩α∧⊂Fεα1_-m9;λ	EH⊃y-≥\Y0⊃λ≤∧dl@\AChA5∪ ⊃X→∪r→\⊗≡f≤:αε≡⎇↑ε∂&≤-⊗fOLε(∧∧λβ"HL=→.Dλβ94`$ay, 6 @
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aclisp compAtibi@1Sib~))VtA→CQY[¬\ACHαα≤@5+ →!P @
←[K←αq73'∨↓βπQ¬~U ,→⊃P@@ V;n↑H≠9.ypsrH4yP"↑0qz6≡P;t0]⊂ 	 @]C]iK⊂Aa↑Aβ≠↔¬9ααS#'~β'MβTεW∂"≡2ε@=8p∀λ4πf A
po@1SG`%∧∧↔
∧α(⊂~~4s5@ w`
A]∃K@⊃d∧∧JεM_Fr∨Dλ
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Not ev@∃`g|∧GJε⎇`λ∞M→(∪,≥8ε4`.dεAYSβ≠QβO,∧Vo~∞Mrε∞},V*π⎇_

∧≤∧wj\α se@PAQKe∀X	↓αHh#∪=bβeβ&C∃β←∂I1β,εBε≡LX↔ε@≤∧P$⊃b)$aRP27`%pεA]←β!0∩α	∀εF←Tπ&FT	v ,X8r,≥β"P→→pεeree wi@1XAMSα;WK∃∧¬w/"∞⎇ε∂"∞Mrε&tλλ,-βzz thic.  G`+βI|4λhP0 ;∧¬K(l8K ≤⊂⊂⊂@212∪	¬]SKX↓_\A∂∃S]eKλ@p∪∪dεrε∂D	TMλε`dO⊂∧i2]8¬rn↓mC@3αX	.P7s⊂∀bj#⊂λ⊂⊂εE⊃0z2]λ εri@⊃CrX@XA¬KEIkCeRbr`!α⊂∧ε-*L&%10	jβE#97[]⊂"0[4rv⊂∪↔⊂+rZw92aλ≤∧dl@\AChA5∪ @6Ix (*>V⊗V\:C@$∀Y0~≥y0∞ ValueS h∂LAM!~))VtAα≠?77|¬bnf≤>αε∂D
5*L→⊃P@HαR)mT≤≤Y.Nα8	 Much @
←]mSαs∂↔⊃∧∧'J∧β8<m≥]→4D}h≠8-≥	Hλ
85⊃H∞t7zf→⊂12P→2s4g→p⊂:7CE92j≥y0∞ The valqe That It stores. SEDF is Really too impo@IiCMh↓BAM←β∪5βSxh+O?⊗Yβ'9ε9β↔Gβ3'∂O#3eβ.s∪↔≠Ls↔⊃βn+S#? aβπ; β∂?7εK3↔I∧{CS'nKkπSL{;L4V;⊃?␈⊃βOC.≠'π1oβWKC⎇≠∃βO/#SS'v9β≠Wv≠S'?w→↓#SFQβ↔FKOQβ}s3eβ≡yβS#∂!αN⊗$04+∂∞qβSW⊗qβ';&yβS#.i%βπ⊗)β←↔faβ←?↔#!β'"βS-β↑+↔Aα≤*R→β7∪?5βF[';8βS=βF[∀4T≠KW7oI↓Wv#↔≠'v+⊃	β⊗+#π[L{I9↓αB;?QεCπ['v9βπ;Jβ/';"β?→β/↓7S=n#πS∃∧≠?77|p4*3O≠Aβ7∞sWπ1bα%β#∂3∃β;zβ'∪↔
β#?]ε{Iβ'2β'QβO→β∂W↔∪↔;SgIβ∪↔6K;↔⊃rH4(4P0=A2j≠↔	kAI↓↓⊃MH&&;'↔bα19α>+';K.⊃↓s∪g9βπQ∧j&Q6Iy&m23↔Qα↓↓↓hR∪πS+Qα≠KN#πe1β1α≠↔↔∪WπKJ↓Eea
a↓EUS⊃U6⊗≥ 4*≠⊗{5iα&;'↔bα19α>+';K.⊃↓s∪g9βπQ∧j&Q6Ix4*∨++↔∨!iα64c↔Q↓α↓4*&yiαJ∧9βπQ¬~U6εJaβ∂?nk?97fKOAβ∂!αNUl
$4(hR%βO.)βg?/⊃βC?NsQ9↓∧Iβπ∨⊗+∃mβ>K[↔9π##'MεK;O'>CQ1αJβπ5βFCCe∧εvO&∧∞FF*	M↔∨εQQ'∨NnL↔Bπ
NW
∧Zh4dE`α¬&↑&*ε≡4ε}vT
FFNlpλ∞M_=	∀yλ∪
≥y(≥
t≤y1$
;<≤M}Y9↓QX9H∞
||z,-→+@∧	;H∃
(→0≤_vx6 %problem.  If
anyone can figure out something that solves this pRoblem for MV-CALL
without any other ill effects, I'd Like to know about it.  One
poqsibility is to simply sWitchthe order of the two subforms; what do
peopLe think about That?

HoweveR, A'm not trying to be atroublemaker.  Ib nobody comes qp With a
widely-likedimproveme@9hXA∩↓oSIX↓EJAQ¬aabAβ#=βπ≤∧6/πD
FF*∞∞&␈ε}<⊗bε≡4εO Q.7&∞βY≤eA"C"@↓AβX∪⊗Q2q⊗L⊂⊂_@251∪⊃∃	%∪π,AChAI+!∂I&@A≠9KdA	∃
%Iα;E.∪Lε"∧d8:"∧≡⎇↑α∧⊗≤8
-M=~*$↓4Y.D	88s
≡|λ⊂m⎇<_=
≤X;⊂∀]<PεE⊃0z2]λ⊂≠⊂#→q⊂⊂@982  "β)Q]⊗-~P$(hM⎇,H∩λX∀R0i4_8
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∂08-Feb-82  0749	Daniel L. Weinreb <DLW at MIT%MC> 	mv-call   
Date: 8 February 1982 10:48-EST
From: Daniel L. Weinreb <DLW atMIT-MC>
Subject: mv-call
To: common-lisp at SU-AI

I guEss my real disagreement @]SiPA5l[GC1XASf↓iQCh↓∩AI←8OhAY%WJAi<AgKJ↓Sh~∃UgKHA]SiPA5←eJAQQC\A=]JAMα{C59αα%β#∂3∃β↔Gβ3π'v+⊃β.3?K∃π##πQπ##∃βo17∂πf`4+←O#!β7∞seβ≠␈∪7MβFMβSF)β↔≠6+∂Qβ}1β∂?v≠πS↔vS';:βS?∨/##↔I¬##∃β⊗+SWKv+⊂4+63W↔~β?→βn;eβ6{K7Mbβ←#'≡Aβ'Mπ≠?7↔&C';≥π##πQ∧Iβ∂πvs?Qβε{GO'⊗ceβ'n∨'≠(h+Oπw#';≥π#=β∪zaβ∨'6qβS#*β←πeπ;∃βW≡)β7We#'C3*β[π3.+Eβ'rβCKπ≥#'∂∃π#?∪πJq↓↓"Hh*∞εpβO↔∃∧KQβπ~βWO↔7+1β'rβ¬β∂}kC#↔&+3eβ&K≠≠↔⊗+;Qβπ∪?∨K∞k7'≠8βOSgd)βS#∂!β'Mπ≠<4+6IβWv+cC3␈∪↔⊃1ε∪WQβ&C'MβO→β¬β∨#π;∪∂∪∪'k∂#'?9ε+∪≠?↔!1β;␈!β¬βd;∨W∞;∀4+-CC↔KNk↔;Qbβπ;⊃π≠=α%ε#?9∨ ∧π&F≥m2π&≡B?~∞,Vf/l≥g"r∀∧¬&F≡4π>∂4
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and ev@∃\AM←β⊃βC↔|εεf*
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-pP6rH;t7P_y2P &ollo@]S]NAM←ehA=H	β∂d¬w<8ε<Vλ4z⊂ 7ould
λ¬EJAα+cCK,k↔3@∀λ
L≥≥88ML(≥≠dY(⊂,-→(⊂~≠P9r`% phe@MJAiQ%]OfAβ;'S#⎇+QβC|ε&NvqQ&␈6↑ λ∞M→(⊃-n~<Y$
8;],≥	C"AQ@↓AβX⊂_
Feb-_2  !Hjl&?+e:O&+↔3∃∧Qα∞m)5EBλ∧L6L≡Bππ-zε/↔Lε(
M<⎇≤d∧λβ"HL=→.D∧∞λ⊃L\\X
`!py !dpd@@λεS#2XZ5"α	]vv&∨∃⊂hTn-vkRλ}WJU>LV.fTλλ.D⊂s5%V,⊂#!
≠nH,;\smd_=⊂≥z0tεL_εE)]q52a]≥⊂⊂#≠0z⊂ 0ropeRty l@%`∂SLhRε
i∧∧6}n]xE]~<|∧=λ∀jU02#!)9<tl≤βrVdY≥⊂≡_∞#2q82 154437 GS30@CMU-10A>¬

LISP 1.5 used↓IQCH↓ae←A∃aabAαc'OS~↓#O↔*α2&Nα↓E 3T
π⊗}},⊗nn↑$w~∧β8;N\9β!._9y$ε,*+D∧∩;Y\9λ
>_;Y≡Yλ∪	~tλ~.P:42H34y9]⊂$P%[7{P'Y⊂:40]⊂24rλ∃77j
εE2yYP360]⊂897\2y:<H64yz≤U⊂⊂+Z2s1`% came thiS interesting change, after all?
-5∂kr~(~∀_⊗`P5
KDZ`d@@bL`h∪∂Ur]'i∃KYJA¬hAπ≠TZbaα∪)QJE∨MMαK∂'πb⊃αKWf+E↓hR∪πS+Q↓↓a∧3↔K,Ke↓	IaI↓	)Ue6-~Q↓"n{;∪πJH4*≠⊗{5iα?+e:O&+↔3∃εQα∞m)5EBλh*S=RβK≥β∂!α6&"jε$4U≠W+,≠Qi↓¬##∃↓∀{∪≠'≡Kπ1	¬∪W3↔_h*∞
Rβ∂?7n{973O≠Aβπ ∧¬≥*X→⊂hT\↑7≡∞|UTN#$πCβDlX#C∩∧∧-&W,m`⊂⊃i[X ⊂d¬U-⊃0A6

Well, I don't knoW what the offi@
SCHAβ∪W3↔~βπK∃bβGQ∧¬WJπ]lF/↔>L⊗v&≥lphW|≡2π&≡Bεo∀
π⊗/<XND~[pD
<h≤m≥<≠⊂≤H:7P -ake The revisi@=]fAI∃GSIK⊂~∃kaα{9β'pα0⊗␈l]V⊗/%Dε∞vis just that I thought I was not authorized to
make any changes on the basis of current discussion, but only on what
was agreed upon in November.  So everyone should rest assured that a
clearly labelled document like the previous "Discussion" document
will be announced before any other "official" changes are made.

(Meanwhile, I have a great idea for eliminating LAMBDA from the language
by using combinators...)
--Guy

∂08-Feb-82  1410	Eric Benson <BENSON at UTAH-20> 	Re:  Flat property lists   
Date:  8 Feb 1982 1504-MST
From: Eric BensoN <BENSON at UTAH-20>
Subject: Re:  Flat property lists
To: Guy.Steele at CMU-10A
cc: common-lisp at SU-AI
In-Reply-To: Your message of 8-Feb-82 1346-MST

I think I finally figured out what's going on.  Indeed every Lisp dialect I
can find a manual for in my office describes property lists as fhat lists
gf alternating indicators and valuas.  The dialects which do have fLacs
(Lisp 1.5 and Lisp/360! Appear to just throw themin as atoms in the flat
list.  Thiq obviously leads to severe pRoblems in qyncHronizing the search
down the list!  Pe@IQCaf↓iQSf↓SfAi!JA←e%KSLA=H	α7|¬vr?4¬π.w>↑πε␈.LV"J9F∞NQQ'&F≡@λmα0syH0y2P_P1y7XuS⊂⊂⊃60syH0y2P≠7z⊂0H1y7qZV⊂1:]⊂:42H;p|P≥42|P≥ry2FB4vx6→vrw:→r⊂1r\80tw≠<P;p\PP⊂*~4yP6]yz⊂4_{2P&→r⊂:7H:42t\⊂2v$[ts0z~ww⊂$[⊂6wy→FE92Xrw:⊂→4pv"Xz9V⊂≤zqt⊂_yP)j_w37y→⊂&4y\⊂_W6, Eaclisp and Inperlisp.
λStandard↓→Sg`↓S]GYUIKHA→YCOf0AEkh↓aKGK9hAS[AYKKK9iCiS=]fAQ¬mJAkMKHAB↓[←eJ4∃eKCM←]CE1JAS[AYKKK9iCiS=\AM←β⊃βS#,i1βJβ7π/L¬f*πMRπα]I↔∂"∞,W≡;8[T_;H∃αr4y]∧@
eXceptd¬WdAQQJACQ←[SF↓MP∪π?→1↓α/3↔9β>KS#?/!β≠3∞;M1β∞qβ¬7d¬↔∂"∞8	,]<h∪
≥y(_!QXεw`2e obvious impl@∃[@↔nL↔&N⎇`λ∞MβP6rK⊂9tg_pP4`4 ref@1KGif↓iQJAMiekGβ#WK∃∧{⊂∩πMPhVL≡F
@Hλ∃
<Y(
≡h∪Sd{x	jλ24s &erence in↓`∂Cπ≤∧Rε@|H⊂→\2rr (exc@1k@∪'v9β∂∪α ,=y~3LU εE "etwe@∃\ABAα33πQ∧¬FO∨Dλλ-lλ_;D+;⊂∀\βt i@_AM@3∞;@~ε≤∧Y$
Xπp∀↓S]GYβ+∪↔⊃p∧α¬&Tππ⊗↑8	-ly#"M|β⊂3 ,a`∂fAα{9βSF)β3'≤εBπ⊗↑≡VO⊗↑4ε
∧9ye≥α∞LW∂"iw$→88m∧~;Y
≤x9≠n⊂1w`-pari@M←\4TεvFN=λ∞⎇⎇;⊃∧
βz42\8πisE be Unnec@∃`∂Oπα/∩pH!Q$o.=ε}∩∞Mε*ε≤-w6*
_d∞|→8n]_=~-⎇KHλ	M<|λ

<⎇≠n
8;\d∞≠→0.<αP9j→x⊂3'\9pq2λ0s2εB1wy9→qz⊂&YWεE⊗KVVVVKFEεEβ∧π0 0αj≠↔	hπβ∩α∧⊂
ε&α1≠md⊂εw`2p¬Sg←αq↓b]xN4yw`. at UTAH-∩08@∪IJt@A→YChAββC/C,ε''J
H
.≡≤c"HL=→.D∧∞λ⊃L\Hλ ≤N→⊂⊂⊃Tbr[≠M(~*4ε&}k$λF}r	]w.X8p↔[⊂≡&w\αracOn ad↓+!β⊂αiIAxhROWT∧V∨#$
&+R∧λff∂Dλ∞
|→0→≥<P6 )qts
To: Guy.Cte`@3*βπQα≤jU +⊗λ⊂hV<7"ε⊗]n6}r≡B¬-H→αk∪¬Dε≡}]]vrnM~7αε≤@λ
:+02!QR;@⊗T2x6 9-Po: Your↓[@↔O≤∧⊗.(≠p∪λ≤⊂
F@∃DZ`Dα↓EMQ2j6NPhP4*O&;≠|,B∧dα4t∧ε+H⊂λ∀;t4Xt⊂8 2e`	C@&+@~α∧*7&∞βY_.λH∪	~t
(∧∞αyr`$ a-l@%`∂SMαβ⊂⊗@|C"M≥\⎇→,≤α⊂7`& f`→CP@Aae=aKe@'Iβ &≤8
∞Tε   S`JAβ##∃↓∧¬V∞w\≥Bε↔∀∧¬∂.≥Pλ≥YλλλM9YP∀YF@
(SAILON 20⊂\β9% "∞8	,>~;p↔λ→P∞ "αq↓4Ph ∀ODλ
l≡h_;∞wP6r[8∧io@9K@⊃βλ∧εn<|p⊂Yp¬ o@HA`∪←zβπ>tλ

=λ⊂∩]2p∞ @%\AS[AYK@7,¬g&∂M_mnc"P≠Zz47`5t cdr-coding  @→YCh@↓ae@?αλ	.8∧p∩@↓YSgiLACeJAP↔|∧Y$∧→9P∪~qtr`.t.   Tπ←kYα 4+O|¬V.}lTε/G
Hλ-≥H≥≠d
αrP 7hy0≡@A∪LAβ;∃βπα8n]9(⊂~~0z⊂⊂_py1P_w2⊂ #drs @
←gh@↓iQJ~)`∂π\Tε∞vDλ	
t≠[p~λ40p⊗@∀AM@3∞;@~αα⊂	`4anfo@IHA2M~A↓Epεbε&|Xd
β0∂`(αβ#π[*β⊂⊗@_9|e∀≥~→-a ¬$P≤β`JAαs=β∪L∧f ,<Y0↔_p¬ i@8@AG←β≠Q9↓∧;⊃β≤∧W.α0t`.ly the a-list  impl@∃[@↔nL↔&Nβ{C!4yP ! b`∪@ ∧εn␈,Tπε/,∧p_~qzw`5pεP→α&C↔K∃?→↓β∨|εBπ≠h⊂⊃→P0P 2easo@8AEKgαK∪↔Mαβ';↔↔#'∧Q(
m∂(≠Y,≡Xε0→ all LISPs use Flat @AaWaKIirAYαK@∨'5`λ∧λ]=⊂~w⊂0w≡P1pyYT⊂⊂![vvw`.
LISP has j`≡@↓EcgSαs↔OM¬#↔33Ls∃↓βLkC#↔n+;@&↑.2εF|tαπ&tλ
-↑≠→3,]]λλ∞∞Yx⊃.88FE≠4yz9H⊗VP)Zvx6 9 explai`≤AQQJAg∃[C]i%GfA←α1αCW%βC/Abα∨↔R¬∪?A⊃∧;⊃α⊗+6CK␈↓04+⎇⊃β←#∂#↔[↔∩βS#↔Jβ↔;⊃¬+Aβ,K;≥β≡3#↔ βπ;⊃∧c↔π[*β'Qβ&yβS#*β'7Cd∧Vn.nLW∩πMqPW<y(∀λ→[≡λλ≠
≡⎇λ∃;~<nEλλ~≡z=≤[→+∧∧≠|K∧∧~9H
(λ~-nz<⎇∞5λλ_$∧→[⊂.Eβ"TL≥Y≠{-O(≠tLL<Y9∧
~<⎇∧
yH≥∞4x6"\W⊂⊂$]⊂9t7]v2⊂&XurP7≠P24c→2y2w_rP:7H⊂:42CE!wf[ww⊂&∩ih⊂2→q4w4]4ww↔λεA⊗FKVVVVCEαEβ∧π0 05
KDZ`d@@bβ!UL&⊗K∂#π⊗!α59¬≠SπMIV∞r∧π∀IZh_=∧	25(→,πεE⊃0z2]λ≤⊂# %bruary 1982 16:56-EST	αF@I←ZtAISGQCIHA~\↓'iCY1[CL@q%≠&A¬hA≠∪P[β∩|4∃)↑t↓G←[[=\[YSM`AChααNU6H4(Q)⊗rε←∀ε␈ε≥m⊗}rD
FF*M↔∨&≥l7&N⎇`ε⊗/N|V.rh
-l⎇~3mnh_;LD≤|⊃,=8;β!,[|[.∀~<h
m⎇λ∃L↑↑(∩-↑≠|]≥]λ≥Yλ∪.e8x;
D≤Y0-M≤∧P )pεAYS-JAMk9GCIX8~∀4P0 ;↔∃T6.%Sβ∩α∧∧-FV@4pm}≥λ⊃%D⊃X:
M8;@πHP2∪	X3H_.D⊂s5%VL⊂oD↓4Y=M≡y9∞≤<90∩[1rP8≤7x7yXv⊂εE⊃0z2]λ_XP#→q⊂_@982 !\bf[M(~¬
β∪?5i¬≠∂?S"α∃ 2λl⊗Ff\≥bβDh→∧dl→`λ≡λ⊂s*U,L⊂ga"U≠g∧_{s-]{K;
≡|λ_.D∀u+(→#"Tn\ZY0nGH∀Y.m<y0∩λ9rxzYw1rP≤97x7\pvεE∪pyypYrVdb∞⊂≡≤→_X\λMβ131∃FAHLMAJ@CMU-20C>

At lOng last, My revised↓eKmSMKHAaI←a←g¬XAM←HAgKcUK]GJ↓Ic]Gβ#'?;~β'L4U∪↔π∪Jβ≠/IπβW3L→βC↔↔+Oπ1∧;⊃β≤{77↔w!1↓α≤{KKeε3?Iβ&C∃β∪.cπe↓jiα%∨4∧Rε⊗\]`hV.Z&N.Dλ'Jε}Mε/∩∞MεNv}4ε∞vD
FFO4∞&/6≡9⊗}r∞|↔~εm}Bε∂4∞GεOm≤⊗bπMtππ⊗↑↔⊗(Q(↔~∧∀	ε∞"[πε.>LV"αUTπ≡∂lZ&∞bl⊗g≡T∞7&∂.N2ph!Q%&FT∞π⊗␈
}6∞b
≡2εNd∞FF*m⊗f/4πD4	ITsiie≤-∃j¬∀-:4ε∞vDπD4	ITsiie≤-∃hD|_Q-vr∧9ZRk∪λ5`hPQ%Rj¬<=w' Q$αααUURjjUUPhPQ `{&¬T6.%Wβ∩αε↔β#(~<6␈'Ehf∞FM\⊗rε≡D∧≤mUV∪∧
↓~&/6≡8V"π<↑↔..l<Rππ-}ε␈≡≥Dααα↓Q$&∂LW"β∪∧λf.↔.\↔↔Jε↔∪C∩ε"∪#*XZ5"α
<↔'∂,L↔JHQ(g⊗}W$¬≡≡}NBt6≥
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-&4∀qM&λ⊂s5%V,⊂/AQ@εEεB↔↔↔4\P0v9[P7w⊂fj`P_yP*"Sh≥''∀bhW(∀ maYN_)c~L.P0w→⊂0v9[P↔"'PU⊂⊂$]⊂6tsZ:εE!→P2pyZpy⊂#≠y⊂9g[pP3'[21-Feb-82  2357	MOOJ at SCRC-TENEX 	Fahlman's new neW sequence propoqad, and an issua oF polIcy 
Date: Monday, 22 February 1982  02hj`[M(~¬
I←ZtA5∨∨A¬hA'πIεP⊗R,r⊗`4U#=i↓αβ∂?7n{973O≠Aβπ ∧π∞∞≥APE∨\-&.∨G(f∞FM\⊗r?4
f/:
lW:π<Z↔.∞βXp∩H897x≠ypv⊗λ0s2_w⊂4i\zrP'Y⊂87f~q|FEβE!fjKY_!]∂# d&∪`g↔'∪)bhW⊃'aP9YrvyP≥5P12H0P92Xyww0X62P8≤7x7yXv≥P&→z∪yP_qqrx≥εE4zλ0w2⊂≠w{2P≠w⊂:7H9wvr]44w3H2v9bK⊂⊂ @_wzx&→P74j≤P:7P≤4qu]βE
I don't understand the type restricTions for COH
πβP\@A∪L@QmK
i←dA→Sq]k4RAB~)gkEieaJA←_@QmK
i←dAPR}@A%f@Qm∃Gi←dQS←Hdjl\$RABAMkEisAJA←LQmKGQ←dAh$}~∃!IKgk[¬EYrA¬YX@f↓←LAi!KgJAQsaKf↓eKck%eJAI%MMKe∃]hA←AK\[G=IKHA¬GGKgL~∃←A∃aCiS=]fA←8A-β1∃fXAg<ASLA
∨⊂~∞
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&/∨N-⊗∨&≥⎇g
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{[⊗$(≥≡.(→~.≡_=_m∧→[p→λ2pqtλ0y3z[rs:≥H:42FB4s72\⊂67`/ps can be open
coded on machines where That IpεAkg∃IcH\α↓αS#(h#πNLWεV≡M↔6*∞8V.o4λ

t_Y(∞Mh~_.l(~0⊗\42vr[:0z4[w⊗r2\2p∞dent type restrictions,
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'→αA%β,∧6}n↑4ε&Nlh	.;]@93v@∪αIL, there wil@0AUOHαβ∃β∞seβC∂∪S'∂,¬F∂⊂β"P→→pyw`. to @UcBAi!JAgs5E←XA9∪⊂@9 h∂dAα∪↔S←,∧Vr¬Jyrε∞βY⊂↔⊂⊂+Z2p∞ @QQJAaβ∪?LYRε&|Z0hV=x,T≥<∧
=λ⊂≠Zv6⊂'≠z⊂12H4w9z\2y0q≠2V⊂ *ust @∧AP≠WLε6∞v<UBεF≥<RπεTε␈&XAQ]→{d∞≤[pML9<kAQ@εE [8∧ernativ@∃YrXAβ;∃β7L∧vGα∞λM⎇Yy0↔_p¬ ($ACf@	K[aid@A←@⊂↓⊗6≥HlTKC"AQ@↓AβX⊂⊃
Mar-`d@@Dβ	IP&⊗K∂#π⊗!α59¬≠Sπ∪fkπ9↓e∩6Mβ∂!α6&"jε%yI!%β∞s⊃αQp∧ααα↓Q$&∂LW"β
	\↔ε≡∧ε∪KC$ε#≠SF5T-≥AQ$7⊗⎇W"¬⊗≤=ε∂⊗D	Rr¬>L⊗ff\≥bβe)Z2ε∂D	TM"β02'a"T⎇,-Y8⎇π$

(≥Yλ∃¬AαE*7N⊂1wv[ww⊗v~yx⊂0]⊂)jVPdFEεB$P12[4r{"H:40zλ∀∀P9Z7zv2λ12P2~yz4w≥tyt2Y⊂397[P'$fλ12qp]yrFE~z⊂4yH3wwrλ4s⊂"]2y<P→0z0@≥<x2P~yP2d]42y⊂_v6⊂:≤:rP7\⊂0v&λ30v9YWαE$H27w∪]⊂64uYP40{~w3P7[2P9|[q7v⊂_2P3 [9rP0[2⊂7z~2y9P≥9:rWβE
Another goOd result from distinguishing between () and NIL is
that the empty list can be LISTP.
¬
For these reasons, I think that the Lisp machine should convert
to option 2 for LIL.

The situation foR T is different.  Neither of Those advantages
`as a parallel foR the case of T and #T.  It really doesn't matter
what non-() object iq returfed by Predicates that↓oC]h↓←]Yr↓iVAe∃i`↔Kph+;?rk≠π∪≡KSe1π≠=βSF)βOgn∪?1α"β'Mβ∂→β∨?}!βπMε;e9ααS#↔⊗)β'Mεs=βK.O?8hSS-βF[∃↓≥!βπMε#'OSNs∂Qβ5∪?5α q↓α#|εv/6↑%Bε␈∞M⊗}rε4εO~
mw"π,\⊗fg∀∞V>g∃aPU≡≥l6*ε⎇lRεv⎇eRBJ∞l⊗g.T
↔
ε≡4ε>}|Dε∂~≥f␈&↑"bπMW⊗*
~2εvtw⊗.≡Dεv.\APW&t
&/∂]≡&*π⎇↔"πl≥G.(≥~T~;<
L993NL=~3md≠=<nD≥<q%Dλ∩(∞∞Y9Y.∧≠|≥
≥{H%A"X].D∩(⊂~~4w5@≠x:4g[⊂→P4\β nearly As good.

MeanwhilE, leT's have the predicates SYMBOLP, FUMBERP, STRILCP and COLSP
retuRn their argume@9ifHAβ#=β'v#'∂π&)βSK,εFBr∧
FFO4
V∞↑↑4πε␈>9⊗⊗FTλ

!"P⊃[w9z9≥qz4g[∧E⊂⊂
) g"∪dVc*S!j$gS⊂∀'iλ∀)dfP'f(⊂→|892\ytww
P22c_zv:))
αwhere DefauLt might eVal to a dedaulT symbol oR iaght be a call to ERROR,	
To do This now, @]JA[kMhAoe%iJ
∀@Q%β9	∨~[→+≥π	%∨⊂→↓Db⊗Q↓BBR⊗5ε+cCK/≠O'?rI$4(HI↓↓↓α↓"&→αBNf6∀z2Aα$*5%α$*44(HI↓↓↓α↓↓β∪.3πW3"I%$4Tb&NRαβO#?.c⊃βC⊗{πgIβK↔'+K9βM#Eβπ⊗;W7↔w!β←#.qβ'QεKMβ¬εs?95BIβ3'∨!84)Db&NRα↓!%%π≠#?Wf!βK↔'+K9β≡{7∃βv{95!Jβ3'O"aβπ3≡y84*
">5β≡C?W3"βK↔S-∪9β''→βπK?+7↔;"β'→β&CπQβO→β;?"↓!%8hQ"εR|i↓!%JβO#?.c⊃βK/#WK9¬!9↓α&C↔9α
">5∨~β[π3.)β'Mε3←πO→βπ9εS?5ph(4*&C∃β∨.s↔KπbβCK'v≠'C3*β'MiεK→β¬πβK↔∪N≠πS∃∧2>-6αβ'Mβ'∪W¬βL1β∨'6+84+63O↔F{?⊃β∂→βπ9εK∨Wn+;Q1∧26-6αβG#?.c⊃βπg;πgM¬∪↔SW⊗qβπ9∧{+↔∨ 4+∨2β←#'≡Aα~>zjAβ'~βSKW*p4*'2aβ?9¬##∃β|εFF/$	ε∞vED∧4|uZαεO4f∞g<Tπ>F]`ε.OlYbε6≥N6.F⎇|Bε∂4⊗ph,≡&?.\Yg"b∞Mε.rλitzM∧∞6F␈]LBε∞L|↔O~∞,W'<[@
≡≤h_.,⎇;9-nλ≥≠aQZ;Y
≤x=→$∞≤]5
¬C"C!*~→<lT≥≥{d∞≤Z;L=<≠⊃.∀_x;DY(_.∞≠~1,D≥z→.M→<H
}H≠[nD

(≥Yλ∪I→β"X.,(≥~T≤x;,UHλ∩,d_<≤
M99∧∞~→>$
:;Z-]>Y(∞M→(~.≡⎇9(≤[⎇=∧
λ_;LDλuAQA"@↓AβX⊂∩
Mar-`d@@Bβ⊃ML&T{9α⊃¬;#'S*↓r*>taβπQ∧j&AYX3r→i∀bπlXN≡<h
¬∃λ_;LD≠;tLT_8[n↑λ≤∀L\~8p.L<k@⊂λ⊂⊂εE⊃0z2]λ→⊂&p\αch 1982 14:28
EST
Frgm~ Jgn↓_A/Q%iJ@Y)_∞ 4Dλλ.D⊃25¬YαaP≡
λ¬'kE)KGht↓_
&1∧εf/↔>Z2αBα+λ≥Yλ∪-}Y(⊂,-⎇=∞∞Y9~,<=→4eAα@
To8 FahlhC\αβπQα≤jU%E∧λ4+∂≠Qβ∂?nk?97dK@∨α≡B¬≥UX∀Hh!Q hTi→Bε∞βY⊂
∀@

λ  @%5&AUKMhAeC%`∂.Dλ
.∧≤y5L↑X;λ
≥<≠p→≥0p∞tpkintpεACE=khAo!rAS@"β←?Wd 4)↓∧∧&*π⎇xNMλ≥~T→9P∪≠y:⊂ 4o di@MiS@;?+'O!∧εFF*X.∞≤∧P ,ist @→` >Tλ

(≤}-\Y{λ↓QHλ∪I→α⊂∞  Some y`CELACO↑↓oQK\αβS#∃∧r&!β,∧f -|Y⊂_p∧d`%∃`∂O↔ ∧π&F≤4π∂.↑8

≥{Kβ!∧λ≥y$Y;⊂~λ840zλ22yh~z2P∃
87r2[84pv
∃⊂6 /pπS@;8∧ε≡∂<XeD≥~→.,(≥{n]→λ⊂⊃→F@
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\αy2`,y b`2↓ES@;&K;≥αtJ1βπ ∧π&@|λ⊂⊗→{2v⊂≥4π ($X	↓↓∧:*
∨~β∂?7n+;CLhQ↓↓h≥8∧w3H0yt`$e) s@∃KZAi<AS@;&K∂πS*βS#π ∧π&FTλ	,@32q`4 h∂LAβ##'M∧ε&∞~8p⊂[∧¬∀@↓GQC]≥JA←\αβ↔c'α8

≥Yh⊂⊃[p∧e @%`
β'v#↔.Dλ
-lX;Z.L<z0⊗Xv≥P⊂≥42P&Xu0∂`$αβCK|-F.j↓Q"αε≤∧h={]R-lz;Yd∞~→(∞]X{sNm8π1`%d hachπ@↔I∧¬v $≥~~.P30q]↔⊂⊂$I{2P )nf`∨e5CYYr4⊂	↓β∧¬vf@→9⊂_P7:vX2y⊂ /d∧A2M~B7π≤C';∃¬+G/,∧h≡λ∪2*D≠x2\α the h	C@≤εBπN\≡"ε}d↓PBα∞MεO~
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∞Y9~,<=→4g↓ C"D∧⊂≠p≠Y{2yελ8πe Didn't fee@0AiQCPAShAβ;?W∪ ∧ε⊗*∞8d88}$∞≠h⊃l↑λ_<M}9Yβ!∧λ≥~T→X8nD≥~→$];XnM9{@	@*f&⊂~yP97]z4w2[<P:iYp⊂17]4⊂:7H8∧esT f`∨dαβS#∃h)↓βw+3#'≤εBbε≥lBε6β|@⊂_t2qeZw3P(≤2r4aXz2P+_v:riK⊂⊂*4_z⊂9bYvyP 4o imply that 
  the jul@1SghA]SYXAMiSYX↓QCmJ↓iP≥β&yβ≠∨⊂β??d+π9β4∧⊗g≡≡O∩εNd∞FF*	I∃≥Q$απ>}-F"pQ!PRαλ-v}f\≥bπ'.ZFFOO∀ε≡␈]LBε⊗T⊗wJ
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≥Yh~.EHλ⊂.4≠≠{Lt_<h∧:λ≤Y,≤≤h∩-d_<h∞M→(_l≥[{Z,<;λ∃∞.=~λ↓QHλ≥L≥≥9+∧∞~→;D∞~→4LT~<h
mh≤∀M|[→;$∞z=~∧>~<nM9Y`⊂∪$f⊂![r2V⊂→5y⊂$H27w∪]⊂εE⊂λ12v$Y{2P0[<ww2H∀2|1Yx:⊂$[⊂0P #oupl@∀AWLA5CYSG∀ACM←IKiQ←UKQhA
CgKf$@~∧@↓KqaY%GSiYdAieS∃`
βSzβ∪'O&K;∨WM≠!↓∞"β≠K?hβ?S#/⊃β;?rk;W3bβ?+.≠SM9α4)↓∧≠↔KS∞K;3Ebβ←∃β∞c1β∂⎇+3⊃βdK[∃β>KS!βλβ∪↔∂O≠'?9∧εFzε≡f*α:@πε.≤@εNr≡2¬"aQ"α∧.ZBεv}LRπ&≡BεNd∧5"ε≤=b?"∞]fO∂\UBπ&]bπ&Z&*ε≡4π&FT	vf"∞
&}⊗L]Rbε≡4hR∧
vO&∧	dLb≥f"α¬∀εNr	\⊗≤d~:αεv}qBπ&≡Bπ'⎇tε6␈-\↔'~≡&*ε≤<6/πL≤&f*iw∩Q$απ⊗\≤BnNeDε↔/D	vvg∀	vv*8λ-d_Y(<;[sM≤x;≠∂∀_z≠n<;H→M}H≤≤M≥]≠⎇.Ghλ~.D≥{⎇-Lλβ"D∧≥~≥.4_Y(¬.≠x|m≤[→*DY|@∀≤≤[l}X;(∞Mh→y.D_{sLn<y1∧
9H~.D≥y<LT_Y2-lhβ"D∧≥≤X-n|≠|NL9λ⊃N
{(_-d→;]M≡[{[,]]λ⊂≠Z2y2P≥42P2~yz4w_z4wwλ8πac@8OhA[¬IJASαsS-hQ↓β?v)β←#-∪∃β' β←πM∧kπ&UaP@H$∧∧n␈>@α.X;Y
⎇(H⊂_≤2r4aXz2yP~w⊂ "∀_X⊂&Xqb$iT⊂⊂λi.e., Predi@
CiKf↓iQCh4⊂@AI=\OhAβ∪↔π∪eIβK↔'+C)β∞seβW≤∧V .9λ⊂≠_v:rP≠z42`2 than jgn
da`→@≤)%βK-#WKdλ

(β"D∧≥X;∞\αP7`& the atomTu)%U)⊂@1∧ε&∂&XD∞~_;D(≤=-}→9⊂_ww9`4ant, qo that i@PASf@4⊂@Aaα{@∨≡≤-F*πMtε.o]Hλ.L(∪R)D≠90→→v8P "y se@QbOS]≤AaQSLACi←4X∩∧~(@AβHαβS#∃∧≠?77|¬bl@⊂4t∧
990~~w3P&_yz⊂'≠{2vq→y⊗⊂ -y only strong position¬
  sac thad↓ShAo=kYHAα∪∃βWw;'O∃αSπQβ&C'Mβ∧¬vNwDλ
-d≥~;,UH≥≠d{{;-≡λλ\L≥Y≠{$$β"H∧∞≤Y9
≤x=→.P:7P≤2z:`2n a @MaKGS→SFA]=\[MC1c@∃β43G∃αCOW∂@∧ε∂~∞Mε*π?≥V⊗}D
BJ@Hλβ!$λ∃~T≤Y8.={H∩.P9tf\48P 4hat Such a dec@%`∂'∨pβ↔≠s always betteR 
  than foresight!) they would have provided one predicate to test for nullist,
α  and another foR "falsa";  eveN if One particular datum implEmafts bgdh,
  it would @∃]G←kICGJA5←eJ@	giek
i`↔K*⊃βS=¬βK/∨⊗7Md∧α∧J8W↔ε≥≥fgJMvr?Dλf..D↓PRα∞Mε∂"∞Mε*εn]FfO>Arε6≥N6*∩
\W⊗>↑ ε≡∞d&*π=tε.∂=_∂∀~9{M}Y9⊂_yP:4→P7:v≠4yzπSαIL 
  merger.
~∀A)QJ↓(AGCMJAM←HAπβ'∀←'→∃π ⊃βM→βW≠MW*≥gO>∨∀αjJ∞Mε*¬D
FF/,TεO~∞]ffN<QPRα∞Mε*¬D	⊗rε=xLD_{⊂⊂]yryVλ9tw1YP4r⊂~yP77]⊂2{0[8pz2Y↔⊂⊂*~4yP8≤7q6"[FA⊂⊂≥wzv2λ1wvrH8x⊂)→spq2≠2yyP≠q⊂;t_z⊂:4→P:9:]44z<H;0v:YP4yP
4W2W⊂:42CE⊂⊂8≤4πblem of the symbolpεA(A¬]HA∨Q⊃β%/%'
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π⊗/m_n↑h≠[nL(β"HL=→.DεH∪8.zλ'↔H&gL-k(Zuβ"Hn[{.D	[{@	D∃z~.L(∂∩IySλ_.D∪25¬Y0h∂εB)zq5→qz≥⊂∪'j⊂ [2⊂'*S&≥⊂0Y22w2≥vP:7H892{~wzyP≠7z2FB*7]⊂⊂wvvw[⊗f4y\⊂0z SU-AI
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∂∀≠yH	iuλ⊂⊂[2⊂'*S&⊂6pZp¬s Itλ
+n+∂#πvK∂π∪eIβ'7ε{@∨≡≤-F*πMtπ∞<_<L≡→(∪n↑λ≥~T≥<p,|αyP'Yα null	∃CLAiQJ↓]kYY%chAMβ∪?5β&C?O∃¬+Gπ∨-→βπMα∪∪πL8R'hλ∃

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¬D_[p~~⊂70vYyP NLπ AC9HA:,b104TK∃β∧ε&}⊗≤-GJε≤∧[n]Yλ∀m≥Xy(≥]~0_]tz4Vλ1:z there hac nh∂hAα∪↔πaQ'&FTλ
∞⎇h≤p∩\0y0z→P3:`.ctio@9CYSi%Kf@8hP4(0 ;∧∧@⊗Spy⊗@82   "β→IH_|V␈⊗|T∧Rrλ8↔.Y=≥T∂⊃rHP0p∀↓≠∪([5α|@∪PAC@; ∧∧`)3@⊂λ⊂⊂εE⊃0z2]λ→⊂&p\αch 1982 15:5)-EST
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@Q↑AgkAaWeHαβS#∃¬!↓2	i∀bπ?_,-{λ⊂↔]2y6 /a`	S]≤AMe←αiβ3'≤εαβ
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≥Y+λ
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αthink, even aside from compatibility, that these should have been
distinguished.  The reasons that apply to NIL vs () have no
afalog for the empty list vs false.

04-Mar-82  1846	Earl A. Killian <EAK at MIT-MC> 	T and NIL   
Date: 4 March 1982 19:01-EST
From: Earl A. Killian <EAK at↓≠∪([5ε|~∃MkEUK
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5⊂2¬VLλ∂ 	Re* @πβ$Aα{⊂∩∧βR3∧∧λβ"HL=→.D∧
h∪,≡Hλλ@982   @b`@6m~P (αQP→≠vX
 Ep¬SFA	K]g←αq↓`$(Ye≤@sH⊂⊂]⊂*`∀AH-20>
Su@	QKGhβQαK∃β$∧84H⊂↔Yα @≥∪0~∃)↑hA⊃	I∪π-∧∧↔"¬*ZD<-*1P@,xh
⊂⊂βommon-LiSp a`(ααN@*X→⊂hT≥`*,<≠⊂≤Kh∧o: Your↓[@↔O≤∧⊗ <αP7`& 6-Map∧Z`@⊂∧β∪β∧ε⊗SijεEβE*40[5yW  I f@%H∂WK,!βC#,ε&*π|≡2ε
∞8	-]+<p∩[9tq6→T¬`∪L5CeGQ¬SFAKβCC &≥l↔&Nβ{@⊂→αh∂dAαKQ8Q)⊗ $≥~→$∞~~0↔→β has po @!CmJA∧Aπβ$αβπMβ>+3 "≡2ε
λ8E∩b	∀ε/.↑8d	){⊂⊗λ1t0w→β`
A[d~∃m←β#∃β≠⊗{5αi→Bπεt¬αJ@Hλ⊃N4πm @¬\AS[AYK@7,¬g&@|I|d∞⎇_;LN≠z0↔≥⊗⊂4`4's not to@<Aa←@,∧v@@ ¬3 /p∧AiQ∀Aπ	$αβ?2	i∀bπMtε⊗*	i∀cZ
(
.z⊂8 5t the p
CYβ+∃β∂,¬Fbε|dε∞r	_Bπ⊗\8n2⊂4`.
the same po`'%iS@?p∧ε∂~∞Mε*∧8J"ε≡]H∧
8π⊂ ! pai@HAeKGα{@⊗"βHλ	≡	x	P≤αathep∧AgYαK44,}&␈.βY≤dXπp∩↓GQ←←β≠';≥∧εFF*
Hλ/≥⎇=⊗λ1:z thes@∀A`∪#L¬f >h≥→-lλ≥≠dY(⊂→_z42`2
a`%	SieCIrAC]eoCr\α↓α'→∧¬↔"ε≡2π≠h⊂∀_{2P→λ30	e@1IfAI∃ISGCQK@⊃β&yα:&baβ@&
_L@yP3r]∧¬∃Q¬Se@',ε"`$λ∪p↔→P1w`5ld p@UhAiQ∀Aae←ββ↔KSβ∀εfO>@λ<αr6⊂≠pε an ID @%\AiQ∀Aπβ$4⊂C?α8
.M8πw, but↓iQK\αβ?28n↑\y(	@$f∪yH92pvλ897`0ert`2↓YSghαβ#πM∧εFzε⎇tπ={90≠Z2y2FB2r0∪@∀XAC]⊂A`∨∃∧¬f.9λ⊂→\2qt`[⊂1w`$e in↓ae@?αλ	.8∧p∩Aαc'OQ∧∧⊗≡≡↑8m≥Yh⊂∪≠y⊂'$S↔⊂⊂$Y⊂4rεB40yP≥4π be spe@
SC@1n≠πO↔ ¬BπεXLT|h∀∞-βq0q≠<P0@ more inteLligeNt way to Do id.
I'd rather have a↓cCaCICiJA⊃CiBAQsaJAQQChA1←←Wf↓YSGJ↓BAaC%dXAKYK\ASα1β'PhS7ππw→β3?≤K;≥β}s∃β7|ε&*π∞,V≡N|↑2πε≤u`hRUURjjUQP@h `[∧uTn∂%Sβ∩αεπ∪∪__L⊗vN]D∧br
|VNw,\"βfMJrε∂D	TM"β02'dα4Y'$⊂p4D
yH∪I→λβ"HL=→.Dεh∪8.,zλ'↔H&'L-k(Zuβ"Hn[{.Dλ_;Z,]λ∪D
y:3N,8H∂M≥h_.D∪25¬X2/C!*⎇8ZL\⎇∞H
,.H⊂h~H≠yD	R3β!*≠nHλ(3Tsid_=
Z⊂2&&β"Xl7H⊂{m];{K)M<|λ≡λ∀u%X2#"AQR)y∧
~:y$∞≠h≤
⎇;]λ
}=λ≥
=λ≥
(~].>~9Z,<=~;md≡;⎇$z=Y$[|H∂≥⎇<H∞m⎇→(
≡c"\∞↑Y;≡$
;H≥↑[<h
|H→<nM;8=\λ~;.
→;9-n_=~-⎇H→~,lZ8⎇-N≡+C!!"@↓Al
k)\<K.ε$λ,&⊗"14M≤h⊂Y-n{{HπHQ3TiyH_=∧
5⊂2¬VL∂H↓~Y.Hλ84H≠ld∪R3∧∧λβ"HL=→.D∧
h∪,≡H&'εH,Fπ+34jA"Q\M⎇.H⊃.-8h⊂L]\{{Dπ⊂Q3J9sH_.D∃5⊂)¬,L∂AQT⎇8M,8⎇∞D
Y.Hλ_4H≠lD∪R3↓QU≠nD≠≥h≡λ∪2*E02#!,xnHλ={;;me3~<n∧_=⊂∀jV`dCE$w⊗T2x6,Kj7]⊂⊗wzy⊂≠ryypYrP7sλ≠Vfp\⊗\→⊂X_[VSijεEβE*9:YP2w7]st↔⊂λ)z0w→0y2⊂∪4yx⊂→2s4w→yP∀∀H0yP'∩f⊂ But itq CAR afdADR Are
Ilhegal.  I don't see the convep¬gS←8Ai↑@ RACf↓BAOe∃ChAK→IWeh0A[CS9YrAUUgh~∃∧A[CiQKdA←_AMS]⊃S]NA
CgKf↓←L@O9∪⊂@9ααO'≠≤)α%β&{9∨Q∧Cπ[∃ε9β'&+?3?>K∂π1∧∧↔F*∞MphV}-⊗v"D	∩π≡\Tπ&FT
↔>⎇9(≡h≥~T_{tnD≠yH={]Q.84w3H7v2_wr2P≥9W⊂*~2P1`/qt to
fe@\AS[a1K[K]QCiS←9bA←L↓←mKe1←CIS9JA:La0 (%P%U+++!Q@εEβ∧π0 .5≠CdZβAI↓↓1Adε4*& 4(Z$:ε≤@λλd¬U-∩0C 	() vs LIL
Date: 7 Map¬GP@Drpd@brdbD['(Q'k]⊃CrR~)
eOZhA~⊗Lr
εJ8βπQα≤jU5I∧_4*S{Q↓↓α≡{77∨pj3'OαβπQα≥)6ε$hROWT∧V∨#$¬αJπn4∧dLAQ hT
x
lO(#"A→(_;$∞⎇≤[ml{≡(
≥H→P⊂]5y⊂ /d∧Aae=a←gC0@FdXPRAg!←kYH↓EJAi!J~¬e∃aeKgα+;@&≤M⊗}r
x	D∞~→(]<≥≡$
~<p~λ0s2 d¬C@3α8VF}|Abα¬MRπ∨≥\&}b	i∀bπ⎇}Vf Q,&*πXM\9Y3NM≤∧P!≠zw2 th∞@P$AMOdαβ∂?7εS'Lc'SE∧επ/↔
z6/~d∧∧∞w∀
&.∂=xL≤[→#!)88{
≡|λ⊂m|→(∃m};→λ∞≡~;≠∧∞{|ZdX;Y$∞|]D∞~~<dz_;L|+Hλλ<αy20Zw0y pegpLe
αconverting Maclisp coDe have much more dramatiC changas To deal wiTh,
like Forward slaqh turnang into backward slas@ @PN@t|A8R8@A+]1Kgf~)c←[K=]JAGα9β∂|¬V*π↑∧π>OM∧π={9(∞,8<sml8[→${y→$∞z~0⊃Z⊂;wz[2⊂19→puP+Zz4εE≥44qP_t0w3YT⊂$P≥wzv2λ1v0t[P:40]⊂1w`-patibility is not an issUe he@IJX~∃¬]HAg<AgJAMQ←kY⊂AO↑A]SiPA]QChAMKC[f↓iP≥βn)βπM∧	β↔'#↔Iβ>eβSzβK↔C⊗+O.nAPW&Tε.o∞O∩εf≡>Bε∞l@ε ,9≤y%Dλ∩<d∞~→0→→P0w<H92py[w⊂;t≡P82g\42P0\2P0sXtp∞st
this, aside Fpom Inertia?

λ∞`@8j7πIhπβ∩α∧"∪∪λα4Z,=_8	2λ&W⊂)]0plMan ,RMS at MIT-AI6
Date: 8 Map¬GP@Drpd@@`tb`5'(~)
eOZhA%CG!CeHA4XA'i¬YY[C8@q%≠LAChA5∪ @6Ix (*Ms@$_{p⊗[ww⊗v~yx⊂ ]⊂)bVPd@

λWhe@8A≠CGαc'OA∧εv∂~8
≥Yy0∩λ87P -ake @QQJAGα@∩ε≥lBε≡L∧@⊂≠pε nil be ni`_X4⊃ShAβ;πMβ∧∧↔.α64P≥4π f@¬GS@3LεF∂&Tλ
∞0p∞sPorti@9H
α≥nF/⊗β~0→\⊂1w`$e,
@	khA[=`∂S3Jβ↔∂∂+G*∞λ	-}≠→(∞M≠x
sZ8⊂4`4 p∂C@~βπ9βL¬Wπ⊗βyQ-\αp∞t∞
I've fo@U]HASPAgCMα+@~ε\Tε >Y8=∧
β:vq→y9P /d∧AKqAYSGSβ!β@&↑8
∞P7s⊂≠8pl@9Kgf\4⊃∩AI=\GhAβ##'m0λ∞M_8
 any @=iQKdαβ'7C⊗{[↔↔,¬g'~
_D_9_$∞⎇_],>≥<Y$X8p∀[4z4`%pε~¬Kαc'7πvS∃β&C∃βW≤∧V .αpnepπfA←α1βC#Lε2`$λ∩(∞≡~;⊂⊗λ0x8 2eciate i`(↓←\Ai!JA	Sβ≠Aβ7∞≠#'lQPF&↑8
≡→(⊂~~2P8)→yrw1YP7s⊂→2s9`4p¬`↔∂ ∧ε∞vDλ	ML=[p→≤β(4Ph ⊂`@lλ-Mar-`d@@@`f`∀→(md⊂ε⊂+Z4z2P∂%'g&λ0z⊂&Rh∧ ≠≠|@∪	%mKeO∃]GJ~)	CiJh@pA≠¬`∂!β	eaIβ	EiIJj⊗NPhR≠K⎇P∞D	Xπw L White  9)_∞ 4Dλλ.D⊂εdjd¬C <4⊂
OW⊗S↔∂QRα∪'[,ε& <αp∞c@∀~∃)↑hA≠C@≤¬⊗w→<@⊂_z⊂ ⊂ARC ≠≠¬1ε~∃α≠
iβ≤¬vnnβ{C-M<|λ≡λ⊂	jK`dFEβE
You raise @¬\AKqQ`↔↔,¬GJε≥↑ε␈↔L≥g"π
x
-nα≥P⊂≥42P 3lh∂nAα+[/3,εFN}dλl@⊂ i@M`∩+>C'∂!∧¬ε∂~∞L⊗@<αp∞ Place over↓iQJAACgh@D`AcKα@↔~
↔4_Y0∩[⊂6w`3thp∩@	G←]g∃`@6≤M↔6*!Q"FJlUbbπ↑λ
l≡Y8m⎇<_=
≤Xε2P~w1v 5di`≥Nαβ@.}4ε∞vD	VO≡lXλ.Nαy2`3)(@AQQJAgα+[↔K∞`4)α,⊗&N<≥B$→→0__y:0∃@IKfAMβ∪?5β⊗@≡N4	FO∨∧λf∞Nβ→1∧∞≠h⊂∪Yz⊂;tY2P0qXp¬ptance @→←dAUβ+GP4TεFF∂DλL\<{p↔λ⊗VP %,¬N\X↓1→β'@AChAIkiOKβ∪@~ε≥lB∧lIDεF/,Tε∂"	Y∃"pβ"C!⊂⊂⊂⊂⊃0z2]λ⊂~P&Pi⊂⊂@982  "β	Ie6¬~P$$∧αα∧n-vkR	X∃≤LhHU∩ε≤@λ
λ4Pk)X4⊂c!∧λλλλM=Y0→→βa`≥Gα+@~ε≥`∧={;;me3~4n∧→\[mT_{p⊗[ww⊂(≤αactic`
ASαqβS#*β7π-xD~8;\⎇_	FBα    o`A→%`∂AβL¬bπ∂<Tπ&@y_>$∞z≠u-Lλ_Y$
αpr2H33q dπ←←Hαβ@⊗.≤8meA"H∧∧λ∃~T≤⎇≤M⎇Yy0→λ842P→4{2`2dπC@;≤∧RbπMRε⊗↑NF/∩∞Mε*π,X↔≡}n4εv.\@λ∞MβP12Kαλ
)α↓↓αSF)βOS⊗+;∨S@∧ε}H≥~T→~5L↑Yy3L<(_p⊂[⊂12P≠p¬acUred @	rAiQ∀AC@7|εVwα
x	AQHλλ∧
9<_,>λ_ ⊂_t0w3YP1pwλ87r2[:4pv≠<P40]2P7`. af @=YHAaI←GeC4p@~∀@@@A1SiiYα)β/I∧s=β'oβπ∂QαC∃+≥p¬Bε∞LM⊗v:
lW:εnYf∨&≥yg~HQ$ααα∧	V.≡≥fN≡≥IGJε=xNl<]~,-→(
UYk@⊗λ1t0w→tp∞g↓←eIKHAWLA¬eOk[∃]ifR4⊂@@@ASKG!C]CG¬YQ`%∧∧F/&\8
≤Y→(¬+YcED≤Y3-}Z;Yd];XnM9{\d
9H⊃L≡Y|@⊂≠q⊂7`4hers)
     no@PA[KG!C]SG¬YQbAα#↔S↔≤εF∞⊗LTαF*lqbbε=⊗v>≥lrπ&Tπ'OTε}2∞Mε*ε]↑π'J
H
.≡
+C!$λλλ¬DHD↓ C"I
β{r{→y⊗⊂$Ir⊂6$ZpP:7H92vt[2⊂:4→P1wv[zs4`4y that COMMOF-LISP Was never
intenion has to "give a little" for this to be a cooperative 
venture; I certainly hope that no one group would be refractory to
another Group's issues.

Previous notes from RMS and myself tried to make the casE, as succinctly
as possible, for () vs NIL;  these arguments may be better appreciated 
by a relative newcomer to Lisp [and it IpεAiQ∀AMkiUeJAO∃]KeCQS←]f↓oQ↑A]SYX@4∃EK]∃MShA→a←ZAQQJ@E→SqKfλACaa1SKHA9←o:\A∩AE∃YSKm∀AiQCPA[C]dAS\AQQJAGUeeK]P~∃kg∃`←S[AYKKK9iWdA
←[[k9Sib@(TTAo!↑AQCYJACYIKCIr↓C@∪π∧εF."∞Mε.o<X∞l<h∃
t≥~→$↓ YP.-;y<d∞x8]∞∀_;Y∧∞|Z;M=→<h
|H∪∩.x⊂∃∃
⊂40{→P7{2\2yz4[pz2rλ:42P_wyz≠sεE 4he NIL/() change and ufderestimated the impact of the "warts" on dqtu@IJ@~∃≥K]Ke¬iS←]L\@@~(~∃≠r↓]←iJ↓iSiY∃H@E⊃=nAkg∃McXAβ;'31ε	β3'⊗+KπS.!αQβ∞s⊃α:Laβ∃z⊂4+π'#↔7C'→βS=¬≠#?]π##πQ∧{;3e¬##∃β>{KOQεkπ3'≡)7π≠␈∪↔S#␈+∨#Qε≠πO↔~β←'∪`h+∂π/≠∃βC⊗{3↔o→1β∪/≠C'S*βS#∃πβ?S↔w#'π1∧¬F}␈

vf*iw∩εl≥⊗g<Y(≡β"[,\z_;M≤x;λ={]Y.∞z;{Edλ⊂<dλY;\m⎇H≤≥.D~=∧∞≤[xL≤[≡(∞M→(≠mm≡(≤
L8y#!.z→<LT≥~→$∧X{{.=~8M≥~=≡$$_<≤∞-x8z∧z+Y%eλ≤y.N)z;Lt∪R3∧∞≠h
¬≠(≠8/⊃"YX-≥λ~<d
;H~-n⎇_;L<<h≠l@⊂⊃∪g∩f⊃⊗⊂_w2⊂9Zvtv0\⊂1ww≤z9:q]9WεEβEβ¬X≤⊗Spy⊗\⊂⊂_\L~∧↑#]|W)z→rv2P_z⊂!fUVXX O⊂⊂∧j~2y2S\P0P6Xy5rzλ7zz⊂≥42y2K↔↔εE⊃0z2]λ⊂≤⊂&Xy1t⊂\\→⊂→_→VQij⊂∀∪ww20↑TFE#≤5v]⊂∂!z|W∀z2rf→P0z⊂⊂djVXL ←⊂εB*7]⊂_:sVvXqy|vXP0z∪dj⊗fPT⊂1w[vww⊗[4yx⊂_z⊂)jK`dFE∀zq52Xz≥⊂⊂∃42y2IyP0P≠py5r]⊂7zzλ:42y→W↔↔εBεE#)≠vP:7Y0|SyH(4z:≤q:y3Z⊂(92\y]εEβE⊂⊂"→py⊂![w9zvYy⊂)2\7y:9N⊂⊂ s≥2y⊂→MP<rp\9V⊂$IvP9z≥r<tw→P0v3Yq90P_qptwεE!`[⊂<wzH92qw[vrw2λ0P1`[1zv0]7y⊂7]z⊂7sλ:42P≠pw<P_{0tv_q62P≥40z would be
reasonably suited to solving algebra problems?
  I alReady have saveRal cAlculatkrs thatare suited to basic aradhmetiC
buT ngt much more.
~∀A	KCHA%KC⊃Kdt@↓≥KCe1rACY0AGCY
kYCi=efAI<ACeSQQ[Ki%FtA∪=jAaYUJAS\↓iQJA9k[EKIb~∃C9HAs←TAOKh↓C\AC9goKd8~∀@A5←ghA=HAiQ∃ZAoS1XA]←PAI↑A¬YOKEIBP→↓¬##↔e¬;'31εs?Qβ6∂S?∪YβS#/Iβ←'faβ;∨ h+O?e3∃β↔∂+πS'}sM)↓∧{;3e∧ε6}nT
7ε.=≤⊗bπ∞-v/⊗≥]V∞⊗LTε≡∞L>Vf∂Mz'4~_=LT≥~≠n≤!"P-Ly8\L≥8h⊂l≡_8Z-M=~1.UεEεB⊗Vcz↑FEεEβ∧π10-Mar-`d@@@⊂εβ∪λα4p⊃[z:⊂"Kα FahlhC\α↓r4→	Dldλλ.D⊂s5%VL⊂oD↓5Y0⊃]4πr`&↓C]HA¬`Kπβ_d∧λβ"HL=→.Dε,λ∪,≡Hλλ@982  $β→EaXZ5 @ ¬# 2om0∀AMG←i@ ∧∧*@H⊃P⊂Z4∧man 8	
β!→≠β≤αβπQα≤jU +&λ3p@ ¬*7Nα co@5[←\[1Sg`A¬hA'*jε$Q*7.⊗αY0⊃]≥⊂ ⊗@∃Gi←@↔→βπl@λλ≡\X>.F@
MepπgCO∀[∪λtxpd`H`rdfDp`s
¬⊃→6rα∞X¬+&&⊂h∂εBαλ
(hRS#↔⊗)β'M∧π⊗/"≥f␈&XD∞X8
4→y⊂3 5ndamenp	CX↓Sggkα)β@&≡Bπy(⊂↔→p¬d @Q↑AISβ≠∂WO≠P4+
x
d∞α7P (andl@∀A`≠↔≤εF␈↔4λλ-lλ_<N0|p∪.  @∪@ ∧εO~
mw"ε=H	,≡H≥≠d
αrP 7hat, i`4T∧⊗wOM
⊗v:βλ⊂≠XyP22Xtr2`$ at @QQJA≥=mK@7⊗+@∩ε\X	.M8π3@.  Thep¬JASβ→β¬βd¬⊗v*
_D∞α42FBα"De@
SgS←αs@~∩Mv∨.β90↔≥⊂4w2~qpr4[3P:4_z⊂42[1rs /p¬`∪!∧εf.∨MxD
<h⊂~≠P12P_F@
`'β+@'α8λ % h∂LAα@↔⊗≤ε+∧]=⊂≥44p∪ coul@⊂AP↔↔∞qβπo∀εw8εq2\α of thingpεP⊃β≤¬vn(≠p∪λ842`-
reAqonable and soMe of them↓]Wh\α↓α3↔ ∧εn(≥≤O∀_X	4Ypε`→@JβS :∞:ε.fD	w/"∞Mε(hαZ4n≡9<h≡h∩(∞p¬e @QQK@5∧∧⊗v"∞Mrππ-zε␈≡Tλλ$∞≠x	iZq0e qole@QS←\\4⊂λ (αQP∀\αst, let @5JAKqAYC@'p∧π&FTλL≡~;p↔_v2P &or mahπS@;8∧π6.>Mwπ~≥f"ε≡.&∂O1Q&&O>M⊗v∨Dλ
∂≡→<h
≥H≥~T∀⎇z.yP!d→pyrP→r4z4[w↔εEβE$w≠5w⊗vZqy7`#o`ed↓S[aYα+7.β]_.M9{\d¬≥z~,=λ⊂sm]9{@⊂∪4yx⊂∪jij accoMmodate if
λit @%`
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Date: Sunday, 14 March 1982  14:40-EST
From: Symbolics Technical Staff
Reply-to: Moon@SCRC-TENEX@MIT-MC
To:   Common-Lisp at SU-AI
Subject: The T and NIL issues

I'm sorry this message has been so long delayed; my time has been
completely occupied with other projects recently.

We havE had some internal discussions about the T and NIL issues.  Ib we
were designing a complEtely new Language, we would certainly rethink these,
as well as the many otherwarts (or beauty marks! In Lisp.  (We mieht not
necessarily change them, but we would ceRtaanly reThink↓iQKZ8R@A⊃=oKmKβ⊃04&C∃βπ'3π;S∞;↔Mβ&yβ∃ε;π'≠,!βe∧≠#π≠>K;≥α βπ;⊃∧r&!βv{]βπ⊗)βGWLεF*π=\⊗f`Q(6}o≡&."∞Mrπ&Tε≡␈>N2ε@yH⊂m⎇]Y0→≤βi`∨\8@A)Q∀A←]YdAeKgα{3@/M_md≥≠h∞M→<p∩H4yyjYyFE 4hat Symbo@1SGfAα≠π9β∞≠∂πC β'Mβ&yβK↔&'9β&C∃βO&S@/4
↔.zβC"AQU≠h∞≡9;8.
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Date: 14 March 190" 10dfP['(4∃¬e←4tACIXAα\↓↔SYY%C\@y∃β⊗ACPA≠∪(5≠ε|~)'kEU∃Ght@↓)QJAPAC@; ∧∧`)3λ⊂∀\βsueS
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6∂O5Dπ&F↑,Rαε≡4εvz∞,V∂≡⎇m⊗v:⎇↔6.eDε⊗/≥⎇f"πMRε∂↑Mε␈↔4pλ↓Q\→4N≥{X;∧∞≤Y0∪→y2w1YV⊂3 /p reTai`≥S9JAiQ∀@EoCIhDA←α1α:&b↓u↓↓Jp4(Q)vv*9vnn]nBε7-⎇Rπ&≡Bεo<pλL<y0→≥2yP9\2qtp[⊂0z:→w:4w[≥αE⊂λ⊂⊂*_w2⊂'∩f⊂0y→P5:y]⊂64uYP:42H4:w2≤2r9P≠q⊂7j~2y⊂ 2eserved words In Lisp,
    dozens of which are resarvEd as variables, most of the rest as functions.
    . . . 
Why should even dozens of user-visible variables be reserved?  This is one 
of the strongest complAints acainst LISP heard around some MIT quarters --
that it has become too hairy, and the presence of the LISPManual doesn't
`eLp any.  And again, even id there be many "reserved" names fop functions, 
the sepababiliLty oF function-cell/vadee-celL makeq thiq irrelevant to the 
T/NIL issue. 	

Perhaps the package system coUld "hi`e"more ob the sySte`≠S@~∃MU]GiS=\←mCISCEY∃bXAEUhAoQdAgQ←UYHASPAG←[∀Ac`A9←n}@↓)QJA9←iS←8AP∨→h+ &←
⊗≡∞MO∩o≡=zε."∞l↔⊗N≤-F/~βλ⊂.∀≠9;NM;{Y,D~;@⊂≠|P77]2@
    Date2 5 March 1982 12~09-EST	∀@@A
e=ZtA∃α{9αD
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Date: 14 Marchbr`!α λε&L¬~8-ES@(4⊂
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π?→V⊗↑D	dL@λ≥≠dY(∪I→λπ⊂*_urP+⊂l∩g$S⊂37`2 ifstance,
sy@5EP∨3~β#π[*βS@>tλ
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≡→(∂	)sSλ≡λ∪2*E30oAQT⎇8M,8⎇∞D∧∃z≡$
Y8⎇
}\oh≥Yλ∃≥z;Yd(_u,T→\[mT∀piS$ihεB*7]⊂→0p6&Xw⊂0zλ!bjVLX FE_q]⊂!Sdfggd$ihλ0z⊂)UT`dFB∧EεE∃44yP≠7z2P~yP8)≠q0q6≡P:42H7w6,H1wvvYw:⊂$Iv6⊂4_{2P:≠P9p|H⊂2:`2ing this round
(via mail) on the "Vectors and Arrays" issue,  There is so much in 
the mails on iT now that I think we should have had more face-to-face 
discussions, preferably by a small representative group which could
present its recommendations.

Originally, the NIL proposal wanted a distinction between
ARRAYs, with potentially hairy access methods, and simple
linear index-accessed data, which we broke down into three 
prominent cases of VECTORs of "Q"s, STRINGs of characters, 
and BITStrings of random data.  The function names VREF,
CHAR, and BIT/NIBBLE are merely access methods, for there is 
a certain amount of "mediation" that has to be done upon 
access of a sequence with packed elements.  Admittedly, this 
distinction is non-productive when micro-code can selEct the 
Right access method At runtime (basEd on qome internal strucTure 
kf the datue), butit is critical for efficIent @=aK\[
←[aSαcπS'}p4+∨pβGS?≡Yβ#π⊗#←πK*q↓αOzβ7W∂Bβ∪ ?$λ

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EST
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-l~8p⊂]2P44\β coNfqsi@=\ACE=khAi!JAgi¬iJA←α1βS#Lε2π∂\XnM9{@¬U(~0~βE27b\β ne@∃HAi↑↓EJAGαc↔πK.!β@/¬kPhPβ"@↓AβXZ⊗Spy⊗@82  2⊃41↓Scott E, Fahlian <BAHLMAN at CMU-20C> 	Re: VecTors and Arrays    
Date: 15 Mar 1→82  037-EST
FRom: Scott E* Fahlman <FAHLMANat CMU-20C>
To: dlw at MIT ≠β$~∃GFhAG←[5←\[Y%c`ACPA'*[¬∩~∃'UEUKGPtA%JhA-KGQ←efA¬]HAβIeCsf4∃≠KgMCOJ[%λt@x`d`dbP``fnβ⊃J~εDb6ε:∧~6U5∪α
x4U∪↔∨π⊗#';≥Rα7↔O≡∨∃β7∪?5α&;'↔bα19α>+';K.⊃↓s∪g9βπQ∧j&Q⊗Ix4)α↓↓↓↓α↓↓↓↓α↓↓β?2↓EQ6nI5a∩↓EaQ∩j⊗NPhP4*;zaα%β∞iβ;?"βCK?∧{G'≠8βS#π βS#↔⊗)β∃πβK'7M#'[↔~βS :≤6≡/>4π&FTF∂&∀
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;H_-d_<\L∨(~4d∞~≤[n\zβ"H~Q1KAQA"K%T∀x{nNβ"H∧∧++%U+++!QC"@↓Al-k)\<K&ε$λ.εFB2z-UYX=]8;H≡λ⊂Y.-y;⊃/∀α8<M≡~≠9.M8c"HL=→.Dε-h∪,≡H ≤N→⊂_KN__≥→L⊗h)jβE#97[]⊂%t[Tεfateman at BerkelEy
To: steele@cmu-10
Subject: arithmetic
CC8 coMmon-lisp@su)ai
	
Major argument agaifst providing log(-1) = #c(0 3.!4,..):
(etc)

It ProviDes a violationof lOg(a*B) = log(a)+log(b), which most
people eXpect to hold on the real numbers.  You may argue that
by askifg for log of a negative number, the user was asking for it,
yet it is more likely than not that this came up by a programmifg
error, or perhaps roundoff eRror.  The option of computing
log (-1+0*i) (or perhaps clog(-1)), is natuRally open.
¬
I strongly suggest rational arithmetic 
be both canonical (2/4 converted to 1/2) andREQUIRE 1∂0, -1-0 and 0/0.
αGiven that The gcd(p,0) is x, there iq
almost no cHecking neEded For these peculiar numbers, represe@9iSMN4⊂WS]_X@[Sαs→1β∞s⊃βWv#↔≠'v+⊃9↓¬∪W3↔~β3'/*↓E/'v1↓5yβ↓β≠πfaβS#⊗{W∂!ε3C↔∃ph(4*&C∃β?vce↓/CSK¬⊂β∂#↔≡Yβ'Mπ##πQ∧K⊂∩πMRε&]mvnNl≡F␈∩
xbε
∞>VjπNXMnc"[n↑λ≥≠dY(¬D≠{Y$
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∀4⊃∩AQ¬mJABαβ@≡∂D	v $≤≤[l↑X;<d∞z~0⊃Z⊂4vx≠2vr`.t  i@8A¬eC9tRABαβ∂?7n{973O≠A73N[∀4+J{=βO≤C↔7∃bβCπSL{;π⊃∧sW7,ε'
BλHT5αb⊂ &lknums( iNtegeRpεPACIESiE¬ar[aIKGSG%←\~∃α33/π&K;≥β∧¬vNwD¬εn∞>;⊗n
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⊗v:∞Mrππ,Zf.wDλ

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→f 4→X;
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nVn⊗↑.2π>≡Mαβα
≥V∞>≥l↔↔J∞↔↔"Mvr?D
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To: Morrison@UTAH-"0
SuBject: INF vs 1∂0	∃πpAG←αk7?9nc'OBπ≠U'πHh $(hP4*∂≠'∂πfce!β⊗+πβ'v9βπ≠ β←Kπ&K;≥β&C↔O∃ε;WgM∧+'S#/⊃β←πJβ'Mβvyβ'8β∪↔πbp4*SF+K∃β∂∪∃βK/βK↔O,sSπSN{;Mβ}1β';4¬⊗vOO∀εNr∞<W6/,≥Bε6M|↔&Nlpπε}≥nBε6}-V∂'1Q"DLXXRπ≡≥lvf*DF␈.-HRbε←∞F.vL\BJB∞⎇εN≡∧↔⊗*∞∞&NwL\Bε∂4∧5O~	→d5jZF~pQ(
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Subject:  T and NIL


As nearly as I can telL, the arguments about changing NIL to () may be
Divided into thesa categorias (I realize that↓∩A[CdAQCmα)β?7LεG&.D∞6}nQQ&∂⊗}X,]]≤k%↑≠→0.<(→≠md⎇λ⊃]≥9y$
9(∃m≡~λ∀L↑→=~.M9{\d
βs⊂ 4hi`≥OLA∩AQ¬mJAYα+⊂↔Q)w/"
Wε*↔!P@@ ¬ r\z42`4ics.
λ   Pp¬VtA9∪⊂⊃βM→βG∨dπ∩bε↑8\z8;
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   Conh∪∪LAβK?Uβ≤¬ε∞v|TεO"∞Mε.r∞Mε*ε]↑π'J
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ASαs[↔O&k↔;Q∧¬⊗rε⎇H	∧{y→%@∧¬∀∩%0∞%β≤∧⊗v@Xπp∀↓`↔OLε7"εmx

≥Yh⊂∀→y2P 4hat @QQJAkβ≠WπDλλo≤{→(
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and @%[aYKαk↔;S∂#'?9bβπ;⊃∧kW∂!∧¬F/∨4λmd_{p⊗\0z4`"ility a`≥Hαβ';↔↔#'¬8hP4*O|k↔?;*β#πM∧∧⊗g≡tλ
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KeiC%\AiQ¬h∩+G+;∪K,#@~ε|dαV≡}.&.∨E$ππ⊗|}&∞o4	f␈:LWε.βY⊂≠w⊂:4~yR⊂ \β o`!A←gKHαβS :∞Mε(hα\⊂→≠qy0v\β  ⊃o!←gJAYKerAα+c'O&+;∂∃∧¬↔4≤⎇~-Mα⊂27]q:3:[⊂:7P≠p¬) @QQChX↓G←ee∃GiY@Hh#/I∧{S#↔↔;'O∃bβ∪↔C,¬f"ε⎇`묬(_Y-≥Yh⊂~~2P9|[q3v⊂∪αIL.
λλ
¬)!KeKMα{C∃αJβC↔↔∞K9β∂|¬g6NβXp∩Y⊂:40]⊂6puZw3P 4he e@5aa`%∧¬FO∨D¬&v␈E$ε⊗*⊂λ∞|p
bolλ
+M→β@&\8

m8x;
O(_;LD_94nM→=~,<9≠≡$∞~→(,=≥→.∧_z≠m≤y+C!↓αEεE∩'kbk⊃i⊗⊂ 4he pRimary purpose @=H	α∂|k7?9∧b&NA∧K@~εmx
∧∞≠h⊂LT≠8>
≥8;⊂⊗≡FE2`,e`∂C]PXA]←β⊃βS=∧∪∃βS,∧6FV≤<⊗f@≤∧P 0erfe@
hXA]=`	βg,εBπ&tλ&*ε≥↑εf.\XNL8[⊂∩H;tz4βE0
aximal ease, a`→@&C?W∨@∧π&F↑8Rε∂,Tεf∂\L⊗⊗FT⊗No4λ⊗v"≡&*ε≥↑ε␈↔L≥g hα\p∩Xww20\<P3wXv9P'Yα CoMmon LISP.
λλ
∧∪QQJAaIS[CedAO←C0AWLA
←[[←αqα2&≥↓β'M∧εFzε,T∧∞}]]vrpQ!P@)9H≤mt≥≤Z.m8;λ≥Yλ∀nN<~0∩λ0s⊂$\βsue as ($AeKeMkfA≥%_AoS1XAIKα3↔πQ∧∧V ,Y|]∞P:7FBαachieve @QQSfAAaSKCIrAO←¬XvAC9HXAo!SGPAαK@~ε]xLT~;<
}]_;NEλ~0∪λ4s2`2tia And
@U]MC[%YSCe%irA[%H∂#Q¬βK↔[,¬g"εlZrεN↑
F.n]nF␈↔4λ	N5vP0Y7x:4[3P!g[vww∪$ih≥CE:42[⊂ P -ust Yiald∞  A @MaKCV↓H/I∧kgO↔d∧bbπMR¬∨
_6*∧β∩4j∧≤≤[m,8⎇β∧9Y⊂≥42FE≠2{P"⊃aRyx≠w9w`2ed FAX Common LISP ppojeCt: we wilL all yielD on @QQSfA%`∂OWuse
we haven't settled this apparently fundamental matter therefore Common
LISP is nowhere close to convergence.  Moreover, *any* decision is better
than trying to straddle the fence.

In any event, something has to go into the next draft of the manual,
pending what I hope will be a final resolution of this issue at the next
face-to-face meeting.  Since every major project (with the possible
exception of Vax NIL?) is now willing to go along with the use of the
symbol NIL as the false value and empty-list and with the use of the
symbol T as the standard truth value, this seems to be the only
reasonable choice.

--Guy

∂29-Mar-82  1037	Guy.Steele at CMU-10A 	NIL and ()  
Date: 29 March 1982 1307-EST (Monday)
From: Guy.Steele at CMU-10A
To: McDermott at Yale
Subject:  NIL and ()
CC: COMMON-LISP at SU-AI

    Date:    29-Mar-82 0923-EST
    From:    Drew McDermott <Mcdermott at YALE>
    I agree with everything you said in your message to Rees (forwarded
    to me), especially the jUdgement that CARingand CDRing the empty
    list is more important Than whether NIL is identical To it.  What
    I Am wondering is how the votinghas gone?  How heavy is the majority
    in davoR of the o@1HAoCdA←LA⊃←S]N↓iQS]≥f}@A]Q↑ACIJAiQ∃r}@A%hAgK∃[f@~(@@@A∧AgQC5JAM←HAiQK4Ai↑A	JACE1JAi↑↓KqaY=ShAi!JAoS1YS]O9KgfAQ↑AsS∃YHA←_~∀@@AiQ←MJA←\↓iQJA
←eeK
hAgS⊃JA←L↓iQSf↓Sggk∀X~∧@@@ZZ4ZZZZ4∀~∃	IKnX~(@@A
%`OQεKQβ7/≠Qβ?2β∂?W↔≠∃β*βπβ7M#S↔⊃π##πQα∪∂?K⊗+∂S;/≠E	βM→β#↔⊗)βπQ∧c↔πO h+Cπ↔#3eβλβ7πS&+Iβ?2β+@.L|Vn∞nEbα∧⎇≡f.r∞Mε∂"D	∩ε≡≥dπ⊗/
z'"ε⎇dπ>F≤D∧Jε,YFN/lQPW&t&*πMRεF≤LW∨"∞<Vw&≥\Vw'4
v $≥X<M≥⎇<h}[⎇<∞5Hλ∩-d→X=M}H≠qD∞~→#!.≤X9
≡~;sL≥λ

'YR3λ≡Y(≥
(∪∩*:λ∪8,=~;Y${{;.]Z=≡$¬→>_l↑≥λ⊃M}H⊂S*5+β"NM→(∀nL9Y_.,λ∪∩*:λ→[mM|h_.D∃=_-¬λ_;LD≥~→$
]=→l↑\h⊂n7{r↔λ⊂$w→αavo@HAWL@ R~∃C9HA
∪0AEKSαs⊂~π<Zε∂⊗≡LRαF,¬0~λ;tv ,ing To p∪S∃YHBAαK∃α≤εεN≡T	DM≥∧λ↔"∧9ZRb¬5P$	R3↓QX;Y∧λα"aS\β CoMmon LISP Pp¬←UKα≠Q9↓¬##∃ααh∃B∧βR3∧∞≤[p∃→qz⊂ )pεAS\αβ⊂⊗∂mxD
βsεE≤β`aCICiS]≤@P@%∧∧⊗v"	i∀bb.W"∧α(⊂∩≠w∪p∀↓P∂;∨8∧π>F↑Mε/∩∞Mε/J≡&*π⎇_
M8π3@ th∞AGα{7CK|¬VO≡UAP@,<h∩$
_8 % j`∨@ ∧πN=λ⊂∀→py2 d¬e@?h∧π&F]PAQK+1n← εEεBα3 -Mar-`d@@`D`rβ∂∃←eOJ↓∀\Aπ¬eeKiQJ@y∂)αACHαα6&Qlj
yLr&!β∞s⊃↓!Jβ'9α4
aα:La1↓hR∪πS+Q↓MA∧kπK∂B↓EeA∩↓AMi+)6⊗N h*K}iiα∨.{K∨∃∧Q9α∂∂∪K↔S&)↓r≡T→βπQ∧j&QYX3ph*>V⊗V\>CB∧i→Bε∞lDαBJ
→b¬4≠∧∧dLEaPU&w$∧?/∃j7&.]LRε∂Dλ4m*V⊗∧λh,<3B∧\8F/⊗]zG"ε≡@λ_3⊃+∧{{;-⎇K;~.>λ_=∧
u+0)⊃"C"I∀≥{⎇-Lλ≤=-}→(∩M⎇≠H⊂l≥→≥y-Mα⊂!p[47zwλ∀14P≥42P;X|V⊂,Xv2P1[0yyP≠s⊂_L~∀FE~2y2Vλ2|1r\:⊂:4_z⊂4zλ1wzv→⊂62pY⊂:7P≥w;pw≥2r⊂0\ywqdXz4ww≤P;tz~⊂7z4→yεE&≠ytw3H1pziYyV⊂9[P4w9]2pr⊂∩Sv6⊂≠0q7z\⊂:42H7q;$[zyW⊂∩q⊂:4→P!gfSgg⊗f∩ihεE≠pw:p[⊂4yP_P;tw≠4w3@ and preseNtable document thenthe NIL and () issuE
couldn't possibly cause VAX NIL to seCede.


06-Apr-_2  1337	The Technical Staff of Lawrence LiveRmore National Laboratory <CL @¬hA&bαj¬yM!1α:La1↓!J↓↓↓hR∪πS+Q↓AY∧CI↓λπ∪C∩ε∩β∪
Z
5 h(n&}k$
FF*
LV≡Fm≤6∞b
>F∞⊗d
v"∧L≡w⊗.l8	$	~=Y.-;|Y$	X=~-⎇X;λ	L8[|L≡≠|↑$π⊂sλ≡λ∀l%X/C"J>8ZY,>∞H∃¬D∪R3¬D

#!*≠nH∧∧_{p⊗[ww⊗v~yx⊂ ]⊂)bVPdBE)→x6<VU7]⊂)≤3P⊂εB∧A*4~yP4`3 confirm That S-1 LIpπ`ASLASLA¬KeKK5K]hAβ;'S!π##∃β∨#πS↔n+;SLhS?	α?+eαO&+↔3∃∧{9βSF)βOW⊗S↔∂Qε{⊃αQbα2&1bβπ;⊃αA%1β∞s⊃βSF{W>∧
↔"π⎇}Vf",PhVm_6*πMtεNo∞-w6*∞Mε*ε=H↔⊗OO∀ε∞vDλVf.|≥f≡*
xb∧≡⎇]V}r	M↔>	λ⊂≠YP;tf≠⊂37`2ego
such th∞Ae∃[CS\↓G←[[=\\A∪PASfAU]M←eQk]Ci∀AiQCPA'`'n∪?3'∨→β≠'v#Eβ'"β'7C|ε7∞N-HPhWMtε≡}↑∞&}n≡8Rbε
}v/6↑%Bπ≡TλfNvD
fzπ∞-v⊗f]Pπ>OM∧π&F]_D∞→8p∀≠4qpvλ87yt]4ww↔βE
What @%`
β;-CQβ?pβS#∃ε∨↔≠&	⎇απv{S#↔∩β7π↔&K;≥⎇∧k?K∃εkπ;W∞aβ←KO#';≥zαC↔KFCL4U≠S↔↔d)β←?.c⊃β3N[∃βSzβ≠πKhβ?WQ∧ε6}nT∞w-=~;LT≥≠h∞[{≥-n→9<NS←FEβEβ¬Y_⊗Px9⊗\⊂⊂_Z
[Di(⊃P⊂⊂;~pP)XK`P∧j→yzεE∃7]⊂⊂λ1wvv[w⊗v4\x⊂0zλ